I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -
Right patient
Right medication
Right dose
Right route
Right time
Right documentation
Right situation
Right place
RIGHT TO REFUSE.
I also remember my nursing instructor stressing how important number 9 is and that we as nurses have a duty to ensure that the right to refuse any medical care or medication is honored and upheld. To advocate for our patients and protect them. Protect them from what you may ask? To protect them from other medical professionals and “people” who think they can bully, manipulate, control and dominate any patient to force a medication, procedure or any type of medical care.
And wouldn’t you know that this RIGHT to refuse has been what I have had to defend more than anything? As an RN of more than a decade, I will forever support the right to choose and also the right to REFUSE any form of medical care. I can’t believe anyone feels that mandates of any form of medicine or medical practice or procedure is acceptable. Even more shocked that some nurses and NURSE LEADERS feel this is acceptable after a career of fighting for, defending and advocating for our patients rights.
Forced healthcare is NOT healthcare and I stand for the freedom this country was founded on. I have stood for my patients right to choose. And now that nurses and other healthcare workers rights are being threatened, I stand for their right to choose as well. COERCION is not CONSENT.
Specializes in Educator, COVID Paperwork Expert (self-taught).
Thanks for being a voice of reason. It makes me angry & sad to see the divisiveness this issue is causing. I have never seen such anger, condescension, insults, name calling, & bullying in caregivers. Considering we are wearing required PPE where we work, screening when coming to work, testing as required, we are protecting patients/residents (I work in long term care).
As for vaccine effectiveness? I work in long-term care. A staff member who hadn’t been in the building for 3 days came to work on Monday, symptomatic, immediately tested, was positive & went home—no resident contact. Because she hadn’t been in the building for 48 hrs she wasn’t considered at risk to residents, but Due to her being positive we went into outbreak testing for all staff & residents. Tuesday staff testing-1 positive. No symptoms. Neither staff member had been vaccinated. immediately sent home, in the building barely 2 hrs,
Resident testing—4 positives, THREE FULLY VACCINATED, one with mild symptoms.
Except that only applies to a medication for that particular pt. Refusing your blood pressure meds affects only you. It doesn't cause me to get high blood pressure.
There was a supreme court case (I believe it was around the turn of the 20th century so early 1900's) that basically said your personal liberties and freedoms do not matter when it comes to the liberties and freedoms of the country as a whole. So yes, you can refuse the vaccine but ultimately if it is required then your personal liberties and freedoms mean squat.
Absolutely! Actually someone in one of their posts elicited exactly what you are saying and included a Supreme Court ruling regarding if I remember correctly.
It's the absolute selfishness coupled with the hypocrisy that gets me! I understand freedom and rights etc because I'm a contrary bastard at the best of times, but surely for the good of your own family and friends etc, you would think that they can at least put aside their silly values and keep everyone safe!
I mean it's not for the govt you would be doing it. And I know for a fact that most antivaxxers etc are totally aware of their defective personalities because they are constantly reminded by the bills they didn't pay, or the impending legal problems or any number of unfortunate issues that constantly occur in their lives because of their obstinate nature.
Those who are vaccinated are better protected than those who aren't, but an inadequately vaccinated population puts us all at more risk, whether you're vaccinated or not.
Kids for instance don't have the option to get vaccinated, of new cases 1 in 4 is now among children, and they are nowhere near as low risk now as they were earlier on.
Vaccines don't work as well in the immunocompromised and immunosuppressed, they rely on those around them to limit their risk.
This - in a nutshell - is why our nation should be vaccinated.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
4 hours ago, DesiDani said:
LOL. Yeah sure. Not going to answer that because it will be used as a red herring for why I didn't share my opinion, instead of the Dr's approach which was the point of my comment.
But if you didn't mention it to him at the time...your approach was also not effective. You are welcome to vent here. Just as others are welcome to vent their frustration with those who continue to refuse to vaccinate.
But if you didn't mention it to him at the time...your approach was also not effective.
I'll take this red herring with some hot sauce. We have the chain of command at my job. I doubt that the charge nurse will find it imperative to pass it on. Besides it was my subjective observation. There could be someone who may have believed the Dr's approach was reasonable.
(Done with the tasty fish)
What I shared goes along with the OP question. I don't think healthcare professionals should use berating to get people to get vaccinated.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
53 minutes ago, DesiDani said:
I'll take this red herring with some hot sauce. We have the chain of command at my job. I doubt that the charge nurse will find it imperative to pass it on. Besides it was my subjective observation. There could be someone who may have believed the Dr's approach was reasonable.
(Done with the tasty fish)
What I shared goes along with the OP question. I don't think healthcare professionals should use berating to get people to get vaccinated.
Well you are welcome to mention your concern here.
Except that only applies to a medication for that particular pt. Refusing your blood pressure meds affects only you. It doesn't cause me to get high blood pressure.
There was a supreme court case (I believe it was around the turn of the 20th century so early 1900's) that basically said your personal liberties and freedoms do not matter when it comes to the liberties and freedoms of the country as a whole. So yes, you can refuse the vaccine but ultimately if it is required then your personal liberties and freedoms mean squat.
I'm going to use the same argument people like to use about vaccinating. No, refusing ones bp meds doesn't affect just them. It affects the paramedics that have to rush out at 5 am, all the ER staff, everyone in the ER that gets treatment delayed while the patient gets tended to for their M.I.
Don't mistake that to mean people should or should not take the vaccine, but keys not pretend we turn a blind eye to other life choices people make that are a burden to society.
I'm going to use the same argument people like to use about vaccinating. No, refusing ones bp meds doesn't affect just them. It affects the paramedics that have to rush out at 5 am, all the ER staff, everyone in the ER that gets treatment delayed while the patient gets tended to for their M.I.
Don't mistake that to mean people should or should not take the vaccine, but keys not pretend we turn a blind eye to other life choices people make that are a burden to society.
Even MI pts aren't being treated due to the unvaccinated occupying all the ICU beds ?
I'm going to use the same argument people like to use about vaccinating.
No, you are using a strawman argument.
Quote
A strawman is a fallacious argument that distorts an opposing stance in order to make it easier to attack. Essentially, the person using the strawman pretends to attack their opponent’s stance, while in reality they are actually attacking a distorted version of that stance, which their opponent doesn’t necessarily support
Your rhetoric does not persuade anyone to change their opinion.
Your rhetoric does not persuade anyone to change their opinion.
You guys have to come up with some new material. Using the same words n phrases all the time
Strawman, Conflating, Disingenuous
Yawnnnn ?
Sorry Charlie the arguments many use about forcing people to make health choices seem to be limited.
Since you think it's strawman tell me this. If we want to force people to vaccinate why not force other life choices on society to keep people from dying and affecting others?
Here's a couple ideas I have:
-Exercise mandate
- weight loss mandate, make being obese illegal
-Organic food mandates at restaurants and stores
-Water and vitamin mandates
-Bring back the sugary beverage ban they tried in NY
-Ban candy
-Ban cigarettes and alcohol
I know what you're going to say. "Being obese/ unhealthy only affects you"
Nope!
Consider how many people are in the hospital and ER due to poor lifestyle choices, delaying care and making the cost of health care more expensive for others. Obesity can be contagious. Look up contagious before you balk at that. You already know how cigarettes and alcohol affect more than just the consumer. I appreciate efforts to curb the pandemic but let's not forget how conveniently selective we are being about our use of force.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
On 9/1/2021 at 7:05 PM, grammieRN said:
I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -
Right patient
Right medication
Right dose
Right route
Right time
Right documentation
Right situation
Right place
RIGHT TO REFUSE.
.
Good God, we're up to NINE "rights" now? I give up! If I have the right patient, the right med, the right dose and the right time, I figure I'm doing right. But NINE rights? (Shaking head sadly.)
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
On 9/1/2021 at 8:25 PM, JadedCPN said:
You do have a right to choose, nobody has taken that away.
And choosing to remain unemployed is indeed a choice. It might be one you'd have a difficult time selling to your partner or even your parents, but it is indeed your choice.
love2banurse89, BSN, RN
59 Posts
Thanks for being a voice of reason. It makes me angry & sad to see the divisiveness this issue is causing. I have never seen such anger, condescension, insults, name calling, & bullying in caregivers. Considering we are wearing required PPE where we work, screening when coming to work, testing as required, we are protecting patients/residents (I work in long term care).
As for vaccine effectiveness? I work in long-term care. A staff member who hadn’t been in the building for 3 days came to work on Monday, symptomatic, immediately tested, was positive & went home—no resident contact. Because she hadn’t been in the building for 48 hrs she wasn’t considered at risk to residents, but Due to her being positive we went into outbreak testing for all staff & residents. Tuesday staff testing-1 positive. No symptoms. Neither staff member had been vaccinated. immediately sent home, in the building barely 2 hrs,
Resident testing—4 positives, THREE FULLY VACCINATED, one with mild symptoms.
Thursday staff testing-no positives.
Friday resident testing—SIX positives, ALL FULLY VACCINATED.
we will test all staff & residents twice next week-it will be interesting to see results.