I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -
Right patient
Right medication
Right dose
Right route
Right time
Right documentation
Right situation
Right place
RIGHT TO REFUSE.
I also remember my nursing instructor stressing how important number 9 is and that we as nurses have a duty to ensure that the right to refuse any medical care or medication is honored and upheld. To advocate for our patients and protect them. Protect them from what you may ask? To protect them from other medical professionals and “people” who think they can bully, manipulate, control and dominate any patient to force a medication, procedure or any type of medical care.
And wouldn’t you know that this RIGHT to refuse has been what I have had to defend more than anything? As an RN of more than a decade, I will forever support the right to choose and also the right to REFUSE any form of medical care. I can’t believe anyone feels that mandates of any form of medicine or medical practice or procedure is acceptable. Even more shocked that some nurses and NURSE LEADERS feel this is acceptable after a career of fighting for, defending and advocating for our patients rights.
Forced healthcare is NOT healthcare and I stand for the freedom this country was founded on. I have stood for my patients right to choose. And now that nurses and other healthcare workers rights are being threatened, I stand for their right to choose as well. COERCION is not CONSENT.
You guys have to come up with some new material. Using the same words n phrases all the time
Strawman, Conflating, Disingenuous
Yawnnnn ?
Sorry Charlie the arguments many use about forcing people to make health choices seem to be limited.
Since you think it's strawman tell me this. If we want to force people to vaccinate why not force other life choices on society to keep people from dying and affecting others?
Here's a couple ideas I have:
-Exercise mandate
- weight loss mandate, make being obese illegal
-Organic food mandates at restaurants and stores
-Water and vitamin mandates
-Bring back the sugary beverage ban they tried in NY
-Ban candy
-Ban cigarettes and alcohol
I know what you're going to say. "Being obese/ unhealthy only affects you"
Nope!
Consider how many people are in the hospital and ER due to poor lifestyle choices, delaying care and making the cost of health care more expensive for others. Obesity can be contagious. Look up contagious before you balk at that. You already know how cigarettes and alcohol affect more than just the consumer. I appreciate efforts to curb the pandemic but let's not forget how conveniently selective we are being about our use of force.
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.
You guys have to come up with some new material. Using the same words n phrases all the time
Strawman, Conflating, Disingenuous
Yawnnnn ?
Sorry Charlie the arguments many use about forcing people to make health choices seem to be limited.
Since you think it's strawman tell me this. If we want to force people to vaccinate why not force other life choices on society to keep people from dying and affecting others?
Here's a couple ideas I have:
-Exercise mandate
- weight loss mandate, make being obese illegal
-Organic food mandates at restaurants and stores
-Water and vitamin mandates
-Bring back the sugary beverage ban they tried in NY
-Ban candy
-Ban cigarettes and alcohol
I know what you're going to say. "Being obese/ unhealthy only affects you"
Nope!
Consider how many people are in the hospital and ER due to poor lifestyle choices, delaying care and making the cost of health care more expensive for others. Obesity can be contagious. Look up contagious before you balk at that. You already know how cigarettes and alcohol affect more than just the consumer. I appreciate efforts to curb the pandemic but let's not forget how conveniently selective we are being about our use of force.
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.
Just because you don't get it doesn't make it ridiculous.
Yea drugs are illegal, what's your point?
I didn't say obesity spread the same as COVID.You may not be able to cough obesity on to someone but it is certainly contagious. You think people don't learn eating habits from others?
I think it's interesting how we justify forcing health choices in the name of saving lives for one issue and not others, using droplets as the excuse. Don't take that as me being against the vaccine. Isn't it perplexing how are attitude shifts based on the status quo?
I'll tell you what, why not mandate EVERYONE, and I mean EVERYONE stay home for 2 weeks straight. Kill that virus off all together, no variants. Sounds crazy right? We are too codependent on each other to survive without services for 2 weeks.
4 minutes ago, londonflo said:
Jive Talking...But these words DO Describe your arguments and their flaws. Why coin new words to describe arguments that already have descriptors?
Nah, they're cop outs for when a better counter argument can be offered.
Jive Turkey is malicious. Most of these people who have commorbidity are likely to be the ones suffer from the effects of this pandemic.
He is right about obesity, but the media has been glamorizing excessive fatness. The patients get mad when their doctors tell them to lose weight. However, I hope that people learn from this pandemic.
Let's focus in this pandemic. Quit blaming like married people on the brink of their divorce.
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.
Some people like to squabble endlessly.
22 minutes ago, OUxPhys said:
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.
And people steal, die in their sleeps or during their meals, what shall we do now?
Little he knows, skinny people can be obese, too (bad cholesterol).
Please give me the better counter argument if debating is in your skill set.
I really mean a BETTER argument than you have given
If I took your position and wanted to argue in support of a blanket mandate for the vaccine here is what my counter argument would be:
Ideally, we would rely on education, empathy, and understanding to encourage vaccination. We would recognize which members of society are at greatest risk and concentrate efforts to vaccinate them first.
We would also focus on frquent testing so the asymptomatic can know when to quarantine.
Universal isolationand quarantine would be most effective but we are too lazy and codependent to do that so, since we don't have the patience or skill to isolate and effectively encourage voluntary vaccination, and are too afraid to give all the facts because we think people will find justifiable reasons not to vaccinate, we need to coerce, shame, and force people in to vaccinating.
If you said that, I would tip my hat to you because it's the truth.
If I took your position and wanted to argue in support of a blanket mandate for the vaccine here is what my counter argument would be:
But I asked YOU for a better argument! What part of Y-O-U did you not understand the meaning of?
15 minutes ago, jive turkey said:
We would recognize which members of society are at greatest risk and concentrate efforts to vaccinate them first.
We did this in the US
15 minutes ago, jive turkey said:
Ideally, we would rely on education, empathy, and understanding to encourage vaccination.
We have tried this a heck-of-a- time. Can you give me the next strategy to follow after education, empathy, understanding?
BTW we (the US) are not too " lazy and codependent "
we have HAD the patience or skill to isolate and effectively encouraged voluntary vaccination until 2021 and we give all the facts despite people finding imaginary reasons not to vaccinate,
I believe in vaccination..not quarantining. Where were you in 2020? Yeh, quarantine worked didn't it?, Really, where were you?
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.
There are no cops picking them up , unless they're suspected to sell the drugs, after they are stable and are ready to go back home. Bail out should be limited.
I think it's about creating jobs. If they really want to fix the problems, it can lessen the problems. It's a gigantic societal problem.
OUxPhys, BSN, RN
1,203 Posts
Yes. We should make obesity illegal. While we're at it let's make drugs and doing drugs illegal so that frees up ER roo-wait, drugs are already illegal? Huh. Then why are ERs clogged with drug users? I know let's make injuring/killing people ill-wait.... that's illegal too? Why are gun shot/stab victims clogging the ER?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Obesity cannot be passed on to someone else like COVID can. My god no wonder why we will never go back to normal.