Yes, I'm Vaxxed But...

[grammieRN]

I remember being taught in nursing school the rights of medication administration -

1. Right patient
2. Right medication
3. Right dose
4. Right route
5. Right time
6. Right documentation
7. Right situation
8. Right place
9. RIGHT TO REFUSE. 

I also remember my nursing instructor stressing how important number 9 is and that we as nurses have a duty to ensure that the right to refuse any medical care or medication is honored and upheld. To advocate for our patients and protect them. Protect them from what you may ask? To protect them from other medical professionals and “people” who think they can bully, manipulate, control and dominate any patient to force a medication, procedure or any type of medical care.

And wouldn’t you know that this RIGHT to refuse has been what I have had to defend more than anything? As an RN of more than a decade, I will forever support the right to choose and also the right to REFUSE any form of medical care. I can’t believe anyone feels that mandates of any form of medicine or medical practice or procedure is acceptable. Even more shocked that some nurses and NURSE LEADERS feel this is acceptable after a career of fighting for, defending and advocating for our patients rights. 

Forced healthcare is NOT healthcare and I stand for the freedom this country was founded on. I have stood for my patients right  to choose. And now that nurses and other healthcare workers rights are being threatened, I stand for their right to choose as well. COERCION is not CONSENT. 

[Guest219794]

14 hours ago, grammieRN said:

've had 2 employees test positive in the last week. Both vaccinated.

How's the ratio in your ICU, vaccinated VS unvaccinated?  Anecdotal experience is pretty weak evidence for decision making.  How do the actual numbers look in your state?  

 

[Charlcie, BSN, RN]

1 hour ago, hherrn said:

How's the ratio in your ICU, vaccinated VS unvaccinated?  Anecdotal experience is pretty weak evidence for decision making.  How do the actual numbers look in your state?  

 

I don't know what the current state numbers are but in our ICU 9/10 aren't vaccinated. The ones that come in vaccinated and positive are either a) immunocompromised (I.e. got vaccinated but can't produce the appropriate response) b) only got one of the 2 vaccines or c) 1 of the dozens weve gotten was fully vaccinated with the JJ vaccine. 

[JKL33]

17 hours ago, grammieRN said:

I'm asking the questions we all should be asking about long term EFFICACY and possible serious long term negative health effects from the vaccine.

Like what, though?

Just anything anyone could possibly imagine?

[Wuzzie]

18 hours ago, grammieRN said:

I've had 2 employees test positive in the last week. Both vaccinated. One with symptoms and one without.

But are they in the ICU or dead?

[londonflo]

On 9/1/2021 at 8:05 PM, grammieRN said:

1.Right patient, 2. right medication, 3. right dose, 4. right route, 5. right time, 6. right documentation, 7. right situation 8. Right place and 9. RIGHT TO REFUSE. 

I'll meet your 9 rights and raise it to 10!

https://nurseslabs.com/10-rs-rights-of-drug-administration/

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, londonflo said:

I'll meet your 9 rights and raise it to 10!

https://nurseslabs.com/10-rs-rights-of-drug-administration/

It didn't include "right nurse" to insure that the nurse is following evidenced based science and isn't injecting his/her own bias and beliefs into the situation. 

[emtb2rn, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:27 PM, grammieRN said:

Most mandated vaccines have had YEARS of research to the efficacy, the side/adverse effects, contraindications and such. The flu vaccine may be required, but you won't lose your career if you choose not to receive it. We are able to use masks during our flu season. 

So the "crux" of the question is ?????   The need for proof of certain vaccines prior to entering the nursing field? Knowing that certain vaccines were required on order to pursue a nursing career??  Yes...I'm well aware of those requirements. I, too, had to show proof. If I remember correctly,  it was only MMR and maybe Tdap that were required. Other vaccines were optional. 

Look...I'm not saying don't vaccinate, or make it a requirement for healthcare workers,  I'm asking the questions we all should be asking about long term EFFICACY and possible serious long term negative health effects from the vaccine. I've had 2 employees test positive in the last week. Both vaccinated. One with symptoms and one without. Are the tests we continue to use the correct test for the new "variants"?  If needing a booster every 90 days is required, how effective are the current vaccines?  Still too much grey area to make mandations.  

Which vaccine or vaccines have been shown to cause serious long term negative health effects? You cannot make this statement without backing it up with something credible. 

And “mandation” is not in the scrabble dictionary, so not sure what it really means, just sayin’.

[NurseScribe]

One of the principles of nursing is nonmaleficence-"Do no harm." If a hospital allowed staff with no symptoms and no vaccine to be in contact with patients and later found out they were carrying the virus to every patient they came in contact with, would that not be harming the patients? 

  

[NurseSpeedy, ADN, LPN, RN]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:58 PM, grammieRN said:

The Influenza vaccine is not mandated, the Shingles vaccine is not mandated, the varicella is not mandated.  

Of course we can choose not to get a vaccine...but accommodations can be made as they have been.  Masks, testing, titers.  Our jobs are not threatened if we choose not to get certain vaccines.  Some vaccines or proof of vaccine (titers) are required to be hired into a facility, some are not required.

I have had my jabs....I know what's at stake and I "chose" to vaccinate.  

Again.....we should all have that right without fear of repercussions.  Our colleagues will be losing their careers, their livelihood.      

And an unvaccinated, asymptomatic nurse poses a greater risk to her immunocompromised hospitalized patient that may have also chosen not to get the vaccine. You could potentially give the a virus that could kill them. Yes, it can still happen with the vaccinated nurse, because variants keep forming since so many are resisting getting the vaccine, but a hospital/facility does not want that liability. 
 

As stated by someone earlier, this is a pandemic. This virus is scary as hell. Most people I know that got covid after declining the vaccine wish they got the vaccine in hindsight. 

I went back for my RN in 2014-I would not be allowed on clinical site without proof of all vaccines/titers-varicella and flu includes. Hep b we could sign a waiver but why? And shingles isn’t a recommended vaccine until a certain age-that one I don’t know if it would apply-not quite there yet….and the only way we could get out of the flu shot for clinically was a documented health contraindication-not just because we didn’t want it. When I went to employee health for a job 18 months later-even with my recent paperwork they checked my titers to make sure they were effective for the childhood disease and hep b. Everything but hep b would of resulted as a term of employment to vaccinate 

[PMFB-RN, RN]

BS drama. Of course you have the right to refuse. We all do. Nobody is saying otherwise. Nobody is being forced to get vaccinated. We are all being given freedom of choice. 

    Naturally, as with all decisions in life, there are consequences of our choices.   

[ComeTogether, LPN]

On 9/6/2021 at 3:27 PM, grammieRN said:

Most mandated vaccines have had YEARS of research to the efficacy, the side/adverse effects, contraindications and such. The flu vaccine may be required, but you won't lose your career if you choose not to receive it. We are able to use masks during our flu season. 

So the "crux" of the question is ?????   The need for proof of certain vaccines prior to entering the nursing field? Knowing that certain vaccines were required on order to pursue a nursing career??  Yes...I'm well aware of those requirements. I, too, had to show proof. If I remember correctly,  it was only MMR and maybe Tdap that were required. Other vaccines were optional. 

Look...I'm not saying don't vaccinate, or make it a requirement for healthcare workers,  I'm asking the questions we all should be asking about long term EFFICACY and possible serious long term negative health effects from the vaccine. I've had 2 employees test positive in the last week. Both vaccinated. One with symptoms and one without. Are the tests we continue to use the correct test for the new "variants"?  If needing a booster every 90 days is required, how effective are the current vaccines?  Still too much grey area to make mandations.  

There is no gray area.  Every single statement you made can be researched and the answers found. 

The vaccine was NOT RUSHED. IT went through 3 phases, as they all do.  It was a double-blind, placebo controlled trial.  They have been researching MRNA technology since the 90s. 

The only thing that was 'rushed' was the waiting period usually spent getting funding.  That was eliminated, allowing focus on the one thing they needed to figure out - which was how to get the MRNA into our bodies to speak to our DNA, everything else had already been blueprinted. 

[donwood1]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:58 PM, grammieRN said:

Our jobs are not threatened if we choose not to get certain vaccines. 

And if you choose not to get other vaccines, your job is threatened.  Are folks allowed to opt out of Hep vaccines at your institution?  Allowed to mask instead of getting a TB test?  
The amount of mental gymnastics one needs to do to try and make your argument sound reasonable should be a red flag.  This is a radical, out of the scientific mainstream, anti evidence based decision you are advocating for, one that is currently harming real people.  
I try to be a big advocate for my patients' bodily autonomy.  They absolutely have the right to refuse, and I do not see it as my job to change their beliefs.  I do, though, have a duty to very clearly explain there will be consequences to their decisions and what those consequences might be, "up to and including death." 
Choose not to get the vaccine?  Fine, but there are consequences to that decision.  No patient-facing care.  And stay out of my workplace so I can concentrate on my job and not on the slim chance I could bring your COVID home to my kid too young to vaccinate.
Make what decisions you want, but quit whining about the fact they have consequences.  If these are just your current positions, reexamine them.  If they are your principles then live them.  Living your principles involves trade offs.  Grow up.