Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
You said this previously and I have twice pointed out that it is banned, at least in my area, in most indoor settings. Plus it is illegal for minors to purchase or use, and it is banned with 25 feet of the door to most businesses. I am not denying smoking is bad for your health and kills. My mother died of laryngeal cancer.
And you don't like China. Okay, I get it. But private businesses, such as airlines, should be able to establish restrictions on vaccine status. And I think employers should be able to establish terms of employment. An organized group, such as a union, should be allowed to negotiate those terms.
I don't think most would object to mandatory vaccines for nursing home workers once it is no longer available under an "emergency use provision". However, to require the vaccine to the wider population is what is likely to bring us to the brink (or beyond) of civil conflict. My point about smoking is that it claims far more lives than Covid and probably kills at a younger average age (cannot find data on the average age of death to smokers verses Covid). Also, many children are exposed to side stream smoke from their parents and placed at risk for COPD and even CA as adults. Covid is a significant issue especially for older adults, but for most under 60 it remains a relatively low risk. There is also perhaps reason to be concerned that those who have active Covid infection or who have high antibody titers might be at increased risk of side effects from vaccination. In my "unscientific" sample of clients at least 50% who have had the vaccine have experienced significant side effects that have at least caused them to call in to work for several days. During the time I actually had Covid last year I didn't even have symptoms other than a bit of conjuntivitis (which was a pain) and a bit of listlessness. However, I didn't even miss my am workouts and worked remotely with no issues. Same goes for everyone in my family who was also Covid positive.
If calling people idiots makes you feel good about yourself then have at it. However, it does little to advance your claims to intellectual superiority.
What I am is open to science, logic and common sense.
You lambasted China then in Trumpian mode castigated travel passports. If I have to make that connection for you, then you decide if you are intelligent.
I am all for banning smoking, illicit drug abuse, hypocrisy, anything detrimental etc and especially crime, however these are not contagious things!
All I ask of you is to extrapolate your conclusions. Unpack your beliefs. Make logical progressions instead of regurgitating headlines from wherever you get your news. Question your thoughts!
You can have all the freedoms you want, just don't let it endanger me because if you lived in my world, I'm the typical Neanderthal! I do my utmost to not impose on anyone and I strongly enforce consequences on those that impose upon me. I don't believe in free speech or actions. I believe in considered speech and actions! Very good people sacrificed much to give us our freedoms!
Yes, you are correct. Getting vaccinated has never been touted as a guarantee against getting the disease. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have been shown to be 95% effective, and the J&J about 66%. per your article, the 102 breakthrough cases represent 0.01% of those full-vaccinated, well within the reported efficacy.
I am curious to see if data will show a reduction in long COVID.
What I am is open to science, logic and common sense.
You lambasted China then in Trumpian mode castigated travel passports. If I have to make that connection for you, then you decide if you are intelligent.
I am all for banning smoking, illicit drug abuse, hypocrisy, anything detrimental etc and especially crime, however these are not contagious things!
All I ask of you is to extrapolate your conclusions. Unpack your beliefs. Make logical progressions instead of regurgitating headlines from wherever you get your news. Question your thoughts!
You can have all the freedoms you want, just don't let it endanger me because if you lived in my world, I'm the typical Neanderthal! I do my utmost to not impose on anyone and I strongly enforce consequences on those that impose upon me. I don't believe in free speech or actions. I believe in considered speech and actions! Very good people sacrificed much to give us our freedoms!
Thankfully free speech is guaranteed by our Constitution and not dependent upon the whims of those who consider themselves intellectually superior. What you call "science, logic, and common sense" I would assert is largely "dogma, uncontested assertions, and tenets that do not allow opposition". Yes people did sacrifice to give us our freedoms and they suffered through things like Polio and the actual Spanish influenza all the while with less disruption on day to day travel and business endeavors than has occurred for Covid.
Yes, you are correct. Getting vaccinated has never been touted as a guarantee against getting the disease. The Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have been shown to be 95% effective, and the J&J about 66%. per your article, the 102 breakthrough cases represent 0.01% of those full-vaccinated, well within the reported efficacy.
I am curious to see if data will show a reduction in long COVID.
Data on that which you seek could have been (and perhaps could still be) effectively obtained with a prospective cohort study of RN's who accept and those who decline the vaccine (not unlike the Nurses Health Study and Nurses Health Study II) . Not only could we ascertain infection rates, hospitalization and death rate differences from Covid, but we could also monitor the development prospectively of all cause mortality, and other morbidities such as autoimmune conditions that I hypothesize will be over represented in the vaccinated groups.
Thankfully free speech is guaranteed by our Constitution and not dependent upon the whims of those who consider themselves intellectually superior. What you call "science, logic, and common sense" I would assert is largely "dogma, uncontested assertions, and tenets that do not allow opposition". Yes people did sacrifice to give us our freedoms and they suffered through things like Polio and the actual Spanish influenza all the while with less disruption on day to day travel and business endeavors than has occurred for Covid.
I am not remotely superior to anyone. I am the first to admit that I know less the more I know. What I do know is that many have gone before me and learned which gives me the opportunity to learn from them without having to make the mistakes and suffer the consequences.
By you not acknowledging Covid's dangerousness and nitpicking restrictions that are clearly meant to reduce infections and return us to some normalcy, you are establishing your capacity.
It's not like republicans actually value freedoms since you are the kind that blindly follow idiots like Trump. Libs hold their own to accountability to their detriment sometimes in my opinion.
You can't support foolish causes and then claim intelligence. Intelligent people make intelligent choices! Associating mask wearing and social distancing and vaccines with restrictions of your freedom is literally absurd!
I am not remotely superior to anyone. I am the first to admit that I know less the more I know. What I do know is that many have gone before me and learned which gives me the opportunity to learn from them without having to make the mistakes and suffer the consequences.
By you not acknowledging Covid's dangerousness and nitpicking restrictions that are clearly meant to reduce infections and return us to some normalcy, you are establishing your capacity.
It's not like republicans actually value freedoms since you are the kind that blindly follow idiots like Trump. Libs hold their own to accountability to their detriment sometimes in my opinion.
You can't support foolish causes and then claim intelligence. Intelligent people make intelligent choices! Associating mask wearing and social distancing and vaccines with restrictions of your freedom is literally absurd!
The fact that you call a former President an "idiot" demonstrates that your understanding is limited. No President (certainly not Trump or Biden) is an idiot. They may represent forces nefarious to the perspectives we individually hold dear, but to call any of them idiots if the height of vacuous understanding. If you are left of center Trump represented a dire threat. If your are right of center the Biden/Harris administration represents and existential crisis. However, both are shining example of the ideologies they represent and possess enormous intellectual resources and prowess. You underestimate your adversaries at your own peril.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
23 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
The fact that you call a former President an "idiot" demonstrates that your understanding is limited. No President (certainly not Trump or Biden) is an idiot. They may represent forces nefarious to the perspectives we individually hold dear, but to call any of them idiots if the height of vacuous understanding. If you are left of center Trump represented a dire threat. If your are right of center the Biden/Harris administration represents and existential crisis. However, both are shining example of the ideologies they represent and possess enormous intellectual resources and prowess. You underestimate your adversaries at your own peril.
If only IMPOTUS45 hadn't behaved and spoken like an idiot with regulatory. There is a video and transcription record, you know. We are all aware that he lied regularly about covid for months until he stopped talking about it at all and worried only about the election lie. Trump is as close to actual idiot as this country should ever get to having a certifiable idiot in the presidency. His incompetence coupled with habitual lying and grifting was terribly expensive for this country. 500k dead kind of expensive.
If you are an American who values our republic over partisan ideology Trump represents a threat. The only people underestimating the violent cult that supports Trump are the people pretending that it was BLM who attacked the capitol 010621. All because of a dumb lie.
Data on that which you seek could have been (and perhaps could still be) effectively obtained with a prospective cohort study of RN's who accept and those who decline the vaccine (not unlike the Nurses Health Study and Nurses Health Study II) . Not only could we ascertain infection rates, hospitalization and death rate differences from Covid, but we could also monitor the development prospectively of all cause mortality, and other morbidities such as autoimmune conditions that I hypothesize will be over represented in the vaccinated groups.
Studying a population who does not receive intervention, especially if they are predominately persons of color, smacks of the Tuskegee Study.
Are you suggesting a vaccine that triggers antibodies toward viral surface proteins would trigger auto-antibodies? Is that because they both involve the very complex immune system? So what is your theory in people who already have an autoimmune condition? Are they going develop even more?
The fact that you call a former President an "idiot" demonstrates that your understanding is limited. No President (certainly not Trump or Biden) is an idiot. They may represent forces nefarious to the perspectives we individually hold dear, but to call any of them idiots if the height of vacuous understanding. If you are left of center Trump represented a dire threat. If your are right of center the Biden/Harris administration represents and existential crisis. However, both are shining example of the ideologies they represent and possess enormous intellectual resources and prowess. You underestimate your adversaries at your own peril.
Mate, if you think Trump represents interlectual prowess, maybe your interlect needs some prowess!
You may have gone overboard with your praise, but if you actually mean it and don't explain why, I will most certainly not be taking you seriously in the future.
myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN
1,453 Posts
Also getting vaccinated isn't even a guarantee against getting disease. Just consider the over 100 people in Washington state who have contracted Covid after being vaccinated. This is to say nothing of the variants where protection is even less certain. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/100-fully-vaccinated-people-contract-covid-19-washington/story?id=76784838 .