Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up.
Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.
The bottom line is that unless you want to move to Wyoming and start your own business (and be willing to not fly on planes, hold a passport and do other common things) everyone will eventually (probably) be required to take this vaccine (goes double if you work in healthcare). The "left of center" won and may never lose another national election in the next century you can learn to adapt or be relegated to the fringes of society. Thanks for playing but it's game over for those that disagree with their perspectives on these matters.
Did you quote the wrong post when you made the above post? Your reply doesn’t have anything to do with what I wrote in the post you quoted. And no, I don’t plan to move to Wyoming ?
The poster that you responded to with this post appears to be pro-vaccines but anti-needles.. I don’t think she’s a frail, elderly person living in an LTC either so why are you attempting to scare her(?) with the report about the deaths of frail, elderly LTC residents in Norway?
We should all as healthcare professionals be vigilant and keep up with new information as it develops everytime we roll out a new medication or vaccine. But I swear, you appear to be scouring the internet for all the negative information you can find. The medical authorities in Norway are looking in to this, as they should.
If it turns out that the common side effects like fever, nausea and diarrhea, that don’t pose a threat to the rest of us aren’t tolerated by a very frail and terminal individual, then perhaps it becomes even more important that those of us that are young and/or healthy enough to tolerate the vaccine, take it?
I have a theory, but that’s all it is. Norway has been quite successful at keeping Covid out of LTC’s and their Covid mortality rate is very low. The latest numbers I found are that the Covid mortality rate in Norway is 9.73/100,000. Compare that to the U.S. which has a mortality rate of 120.97/100,000. That’s more than twelve times higher than Norway.
Norway started vaccinating around the same time as the EU, on December 27. They have given the majority of the doses delivered so far to the elderly who live in care homes. Since so few have died during the pandemic compared to almost all other European countries, they likely have a larger share of the most sick and frail population still alive. They probably have many individuals who are medically very vulnerable.
So let’s definitely keep an eye on how this develops, but let’s not scaremonger.
Specializes in Jack of all trades, master of...a few ;).
On 12/31/2020 at 1:26 PM, myoglobin said:
Also, if these reports https://thenewamerican.com/covid-vaccine-adverse-reactions-noted-bio-buttons-to-monitor-results/ hold up I believe that the employers who mandate these vaccines might make themselves vulnerable to class action lawsuits by those workers forced to take the vaccines. Also, all it would take is a "fraction" nurses to not accept the vaccine and go to someplace that doesn't require the vaccination to quickly cripple this policy of forced vaccination.
NO NO NO, Just stop googling. You'll find every scary thing that could possibly be associated with the vaccine and is often half truth or blown way out of proportion! You can find stories and evidence from both sides always. My main thought is even if drug companies are shady, unless the CEO is THANOS what good is it for him to kill off or debilitate half his paying customers. I'd be more apt to believe the vaccine is worthless placebo then to believe its truly that harmful to me.
I remember a particular controversy surrounding the gardisil vaccine, so many parents read the internet scare stories and it was difficult to convince them otherwise. I trusted my pediatrician, she advised giving the vaccine as she did always, and told parents to read about it on the CDC website and no where else. I promptly gave my daughter the vaccine and since my 2 sons have gotten the series. none had any side effects..in fact out of the roughly 75 kids that got that vaccine from 1 almost fainted and 1 had some pain and tingling in her arm for about 24 hours...that's it, the only 2 side effects. My daughter will be 26 on valentines day, just bought a house and 2nd year nursing student, she had a close friend (who would not get the vaccine) that passed away from cervical cancer at the age of 24 shortly after having a baby. And I realize that's just yet another scare story, but its enough for me.
The problem here is being forced to have it, the freedom to choose is important for everyone. The freedom to take your time to think about it. The freedom to make the choice on your own and I think most HCP's will make the right choice when they don't have the shock stories coming at them from every side.
Specializes in Former NP now Internal medicine PGY-3.
18 hours ago, macawake said:
This paragraph makes absolutely no sense. I mean we’re all going to die at some point but since there isn’t a 99% recovery rate from death, I assume that the high risk you’re referring to is the risk of a serious outcome from a Covid-19 infection due to personal risk factors? If you are then the ”99+%” don’t apply to you. Also, as an NP I’m sure you’re aware that even if you survive Covid, that doesn’t always mean that you won’t suffer sequelae.
We’ve lived with this pandemic for less than a year and considering I’m only one person, I’ve already seen a rather worrying number of chest x-rays from young and middle-aged patients who’ve recovered from Covid, that have me concerned. It’s certainly convinced me that this isn’t an infection I want if I can avoid it.
Bat soup croup vaccines? ”Static”?
Not interested.
I have no idea what tim NP said or if he even knows what he said but the sad part is this person has prescribing privileges. Good ole NP school standards must be at an all time low.
its bad enough that we have joe blows off the street as covid denies but when someone who can diagnose and prescribe has it wow. Must have never been in a covid unit yet I guess.
Personally, I will not be getting the vaccine and if that means looking for employment elsewhere, I guess that's what I will have to do. I find it interesting that people are being mandated by employers to get a vaccine that technically has not gone through the "official" FDA approval process but is only for Emergency Use. While there may be reports that the vaccine itself is 90 plus percent effective and serves the "greater good" only time will tell. If peeps want to get the vaccine fine, but for those who have concerns about the safety of the vaccine or fear that they could have a serious reaction or die from it, should be given the alternative to opt out!!. In my workplace, several employees immediately had allergic/anaphylactic reactions after their first shot. While you most likely disagree with my decision on the matter, it is not your decision to make but mine. ?
I have no idea what tim NP said or if he even knows what he said but the sad part is this person has prescribing privileges. Good ole NP school standards must be at an all time low.
its bad enough that we have joe blows off the street as covid denies but when someone who can diagnose and prescribe has it wow. Must have never been in a covid unit yet I guess.
Agree. I have to admit, I find it a bit frightening.
1 hour ago, Mickey78 said:
I find it interesting that people are being mandated by employers to get a vaccine that technically has not gone through the "official" FDA approval process but is only for Emergency Use.
I wasn’t aware that people are being mandated? It seems most posters have described that it’s voluntary at their places of work? That could of course change in the future.
We were offered our first doses on my unit this week and I’m happy to report that 95%(!) have now gotten the vaccine. That number will probably increase to 97-98% since three coworkers were off sick and I known that at least two of them plan on getting it.
1 hour ago, Mickey78 said:
While you most likely disagree with my decision on the matter, it is not your decision to make but mine. ?
It doesn’t matter whether I agree or disagree with your decision. Are you under the impression that anyone here thinks that it should be their decision whether you should take the vaccine? Personally I think it should be voluntary, but I hope that people will base their decisions on facts rather than emotion.
Aveanna Healthcare previously sent out an email that stated they were not mandating the vaccine. Now they send out an update that instructs those same employees on how to keep their shifts and hours as more and more home care families are requesting vaccinated caregivers and clinicians. Par for the course. Coming out into the open to tell people if they don't get in line, they will lose their jobs.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
On 3/30/2021 at 9:24 AM, caliotter3 said:
Aveanna Healthcare previously sent out an email that stated they were not mandating the vaccine. Now they send out an update that instructs those same employees on how to keep their shifts and hours as more and more home care families are requesting vaccinated caregivers and clinicians. Par for the course. Coming out into the open to tell people if they don't get in line, they will lose their jobs.
That is a risk I’m willing to take. No one can make me take a risk. I’m high risk, according to “experts” I will die, not might die, WILL die. There is a 99+% recovery rate, I’m good with that.
I don’t presume to dictate the path for others to take. Everyone taking the vaccine still doesn’t do away with masks and social distancing.
Who’s to say that bat soup croup vaccines won’t be a yearly thing? Or monthly, or however often the powers that be dictate? Pass. Don’t give me static or tell me I am a murderer for not taking the vaccine or wearing a mask. I especially love that accusation, makes me feel like Genghis Kahn.
Italy's government has passed a decree making vaccination mandatory for all healthcare and pharmacy workers with the aim of protecting medical staff, patients and vulnerable people.
Healthcare workers who refuse the vaccine will be reassigned where possible to roles where they are not in contact with patients. Where that is not an option they now face being suspended without pay.
The Italian Federation of Doctors and Dentists argues that the government should have gone further and made the legal procedure to suspend non-vaccinated workers easier and faster. However, a minority in the healthcare community remain strongly opposed to compulsory vaccination.
On 12/25/2020 at 11:19 AM, TheMoonisMyLantern said:
I hear what you're saying and see your point. My concern is that even though more than likely serious side effects are going to be rare or non-existent with the vaccine the truth is we don't know because we haven't had long enough to study it due to the urgency of the pandemic.
I keep reading this kind of sentiment over and over again. Can I ask what kind of long-term effects are you afraid of? Can you name them. I'm assuming you know how the covid-19 vaccine works to help build antibodies to the virus, what are the potential (in your estimation) permanent or other long-term effects you are afraid of? I am being genuine.
Specializes in Mental health, substance abuse, geriatrics, PCU.
On 4/2/2021 at 8:57 PM, CABGpatch_RN said:
I keep reading this kind of sentiment over and over again. Can I ask what kind of long-term effects are you afraid of? Can you name them. I'm assuming you know how the covid-19 vaccine works to help build antibodies to the virus, what are the potential (in your estimation) permanent or other long-term effects you are afraid of? I am being genuine.
Please note that while I've toyed with that concern, it did not stop me from becoming fully vaccinated and advocating that others do the same. That said, almost every medical treatment can have the potential for adverse effects that can be long acting. With vaccines it's exceedingly rare but it does happen. I read about one unfortunate fellow who got his first flu vaccine I think around 5 years ago and he had an extremely rare neurological reaction, some phenomenon I had never even heard of that left him permanently paralyzed from the waste down. Luckily he was able to rec. compensation from the government fund for vaccine "injuries".
To me the risk of COVID effects are much scarier than the unknowns of a new treatment, but it's always good to remember that some things come at a price and there are not 100 percents in medicine.
Bottom line it's my body and I will weigh the risks and benefits for myself and not take it unless it is at the barrel of a gun if it is forced. There are about 30% of Americans who feel more or less the same. I may eventually take it of my own accord, but it will be a personal decision.
macawake, MSN
2,141 Posts
Did you quote the wrong post when you made the above post? Your reply doesn’t have anything to do with what I wrote in the post you quoted. And no, I don’t plan to move to Wyoming ?
The poster that you responded to with this post appears to be pro-vaccines but anti-needles.. I don’t think she’s a frail, elderly person living in an LTC either so why are you attempting to scare her(?) with the report about the deaths of frail, elderly LTC residents in Norway?
https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149
We should all as healthcare professionals be vigilant and keep up with new information as it develops everytime we roll out a new medication or vaccine. But I swear, you appear to be scouring the internet for all the negative information you can find. The medical authorities in Norway are looking in to this, as they should.
If it turns out that the common side effects like fever, nausea and diarrhea, that don’t pose a threat to the rest of us aren’t tolerated by a very frail and terminal individual, then perhaps it becomes even more important that those of us that are young and/or healthy enough to tolerate the vaccine, take it?
I have a theory, but that’s all it is. Norway has been quite successful at keeping Covid out of LTC’s and their Covid mortality rate is very low. The latest numbers I found are that the Covid mortality rate in Norway is 9.73/100,000. Compare that to the U.S. which has a mortality rate of 120.97/100,000. That’s more than twelve times higher than Norway.
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
Norway started vaccinating around the same time as the EU, on December 27. They have given the majority of the doses delivered so far to the elderly who live in care homes. Since so few have died during the pandemic compared to almost all other European countries, they likely have a larger share of the most sick and frail population still alive. They probably have many individuals who are medically very vulnerable.
So let’s definitely keep an eye on how this develops, but let’s not scaremonger.