Yes, Employer Can Require Covid Vaccine

[TheMoonisMyLantern]

Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up. 

Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.

Yes, your employer can require you to get a COVID-19 vaccine, the EEOC says

[nursetim, NP]

I would take the vaccine only if those requiring it would pay for any adverse reaction that may permanently disable me or result in my death.

Y’all do realize that the company that produce the vaccine are immune from civil suits resulting in personal harm, right?

[Tegridy]

I’m not saying to not have skepticism but it will never cease to amaze me how people will gladly take whatever antibiotic or random medicine given to them but get all up in a fit about vaccines. Vaccines are probably safer than that cipro the urgent care just gave you for that UTI, or macrobid, or bactrim, or pick pretty much any other medicine. 
 

What is it about vaccines that gives people some unearned fear of them?

 

[MunoRN, RN]

16 minutes ago, nursetim said:

I would take the vaccine only if those requiring it would pay for any adverse reaction that may permanently disable me or result in my death.

Y’all do realize that the company that produce the vaccine are immune from civil suits resulting in personal harm, right?

There's also nobody you can sue if you decline the vaccine and get Covid and end up with a chronic, debilitating condition.  Having a chronic health condition due to a Covid infection is exponentially more likely to occur due to a Covid infection that it is from the vaccine.

[Tegridy]

10 hours ago, MunoRN said:

There's also nobody you can sue if you decline the vaccine and get Covid and end up with a chronic, debilitating condition.  Having a chronic health condition due to a Covid infection is exponentially more likely to occur due to a Covid infection that it is from the vaccine.

Not exponentially since using not live vaccines / mRNA vaccine makes it impossible to get the actual disease from it. The spike protein itself is not a pathogen just a clump of protein your body doesn’t want in its house

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

1 hour ago, Tegridy said:

Not exponentially since using not live vaccines / mRNA vaccine makes it impossible to get the actual disease from it. The spike protein itself is not a pathogen just a clump of protein your body doesn’t want in its house

The person you were replying to was making your point. Their position is that the disease itself is likely to cause more long term issues than the vaccine. If you are concerned about getting this vaccine it is probably due to short term concerns over anaphylaxis (which the CDC recently reported are running at about 10x that of the flu vaccine) or unsubstantiated concerns over long term health consequences with immunological ramifications. There are also those like me who have had the disease (so long term consequences from the disease are already a concern and the question is whether or not the vaccine might mitigate them or at least reduce the risk of reinfection). 

[Tegridy]

1 hour ago, myoglobin said:

The person you were replying to was making your point. Their position is that the disease itself is likely to cause more long term issues than the vaccine. If you are concerned about getting this vaccine it is probably due to short term concerns over anaphylaxis (which the CDC recently reported are running at about 10x that of the flu vaccine) or unsubstantiated concerns over long term health consequences with immunological ramifications. There are also those like me who have had the disease (so long term consequences from the disease are already a concern and the question is whether or not the vaccine might mitigate them or at least reduce the risk of reinfection). 

I agree I would be more worried about getting SEID or something along that spectrum than respiratory failure from covid. 

[nursetim, NP]

19 hours ago, MunoRN said:

There's also nobody you can sue if you decline the vaccine and get Covid and end up with a chronic, debilitating condition.  Having a chronic health condition due to a Covid infection is exponentially more likely to occur due to a Covid infection that it is from the vaccine.

That is a risk I’m willing to take. No one can make me take a risk. I’m high risk, according to “experts” I will die, not might die, WILL die. There is a 99+% recovery rate, I’m good with that.

I don’t presume to dictate the path for others to take. Everyone taking the vaccine still doesn’t do away with masks and social distancing.

Who’s to say that bat soup croup vaccines won’t be a yearly thing? Or monthly, or however often the powers that be dictate? Pass. Don’t give me static or tell me I am a murderer for not taking the vaccine or wearing a mask. I especially love that accusation, makes me feel like Genghis Kahn.

[MunoRN, RN]

42 minutes ago, nursetim said:

That is a risk I’m willing to take. No one can make me take a risk. I’m high risk, according to “experts” I will die, not might die, WILL die. There is a 99+% recovery rate, I’m good with that.

I don’t presume to dictate the path for others to take. Everyone taking the vaccine still doesn’t do away with masks and social distancing.

Who’s to say that bat soup croup vaccines won’t be a yearly thing? Or monthly, or however often the powers that be dictate? Pass. Don’t give me static or tell me I am a murderer for not taking the vaccine or wearing a mask. I especially love that accusation, makes me feel like Genghis Kahn.

And you're of course free to chose not to take the vaccine, if you want to feel like Genghis Kahn then you do you.

You gave your reason earlier for not taking the vaccine as being there is nobody to sue when something bad happens, although there is also nobody sue when something bad happens from having Covid, which statistically is far more likely.

The recovery rate from Covid isn't actually "99+%", overall the case-fatality-rate is about 2%, which is pretty high for a disease that spreads relatively easily through a population.

Vaccines don't immediately do away with mitigation measures like masks, but it's the only way to eventually get to that point (without just resigning ourselves to a total Covid death count in the millions in the US).

And I agree, "murderer" isn't the correct term for someone who refuses to wear a mask when appropriate, "reckless" or "sociopath" are probably more accurate.

[macawake, MSN]

1 hour ago, nursetim said:

That is a risk I’m willing to take. No one can make me take a risk. I’m high risk, according to “experts” I will die, not might die, WILL die. There is a 99+% recovery rate, I’m good with that.

This paragraph makes absolutely no sense. I mean we’re all going to die at some point but since there isn’t a 99% recovery rate from death, I assume that the high risk you’re referring to is the risk of a serious outcome from a Covid-19 infection due to personal risk factors? If you are then the ”99+%” don’t apply to you. Also, as an NP I’m sure you’re aware that even if you survive Covid, that doesn’t always mean that you won’t suffer sequelae.

We’ve lived with this pandemic for less than a year and considering I’m only one person, I’ve already seen a rather worrying number of chest x-rays from young and middle-aged patients who’ve recovered from Covid, that have me concerned. It’s certainly convinced me that this isn’t an infection I want if I can avoid it.

 

1 hour ago, nursetim said:

Who’s to say that bat soup croup vaccines won’t be a yearly thing? Or monthly, or however often the powers that be dictate? Pass. Don’t give me static or tell me I am a murderer for not taking the vaccine or wearing a mask. I especially love that accusation, makes me feel like Genghis Kahn.

Bat soup croup vaccines? ”Static”? 
 

Not interested. 
 

 

 

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

4 hours ago, macawake said:

This paragraph makes absolutely no sense. I mean we’re all going to die at some point but since there isn’t a 99% recovery rate from death, I assume that the high risk you’re referring to is the risk of a serious outcome from a Covid-19 infection due to personal risk factors? If you are then the ”99+%” don’t apply to you. Also, as an NP I’m sure you’re aware that even if you survive Covid, that doesn’t always mean that you won’t suffer sequelae.

We’ve lived with this pandemic for less than a year and considering I’m only one person, I’ve already seen a rather worrying number of chest x-rays from young and middle-aged patients who’ve recovered from Covid, that have me concerned. It’s certainly convinced me that this isn’t an infection I want if I can avoid it.

 

Bat soup croup vaccines? ”Static”? 
 

Not interested. 
 

 

 

The bottom line is that unless you want to move to Wyoming and start your own business (and be willing to not fly on planes, hold a passport and do other common things) everyone will eventually (probably) be required to take this vaccine (goes double if you work in healthcare).  The "left of center" won and may never lose another national election in the next century you can learn to adapt or be relegated to the fringes of society. Thanks for playing but it's game over for those that disagree with their perspectives on these matters. 

[mom_e_bizcut, LPN]

I hear what you're saying when it comes to the mandate, that’s an awful lot of control for any entity to have over your life and body. The schools mandate our kids though and I agree with that, but they don’t mandate EVERY vaccine.  As far as the safety of the vaccine I’m not worried, they’re never 100% safe but they’ve not hurt anyone I know as of yet. I’d never Google anything when it comes to vaccines and I’d be careful who I’d trust when it comes to news broadcasts. 

I’m completely in favor of vaccines, I worked in pediatrics for 6 yrs and the kids in my practice were consistently at 100% for their vaccines, and that includes my own kids who were also stuck by me! What I am not in favor of is SHOTS...when they’re coming into me anyway. My previous employer made the flu vaccine mandatory unless we wanted to wear a mask all day, well I didn’t so... bring on the flu shot! I hated that time of year, I could hear the flu shot cart coming down the hall and I’d panic, hide in the bathroom they’d find me. I’d get sweaty and dizzy, I’d feel faint and you know when all the sudden you can’t see because this darkness comes over your eyes but your still standing??...ya that (can’t think of the word..which is what happens to me when I talk about getting shots)!. I hate shots, I’m afraid of them, I’ve never had any needle willingly enter my body, no piercings not even ears no tattoos. I couldn't concentrate when I knew it was flu shot time. I’ve given literally thousands of shots I’m sure but apparently I can dish it out..I Just can’t take it. I left there and started at a different facility in 2015, they don’t force me to get the flu shot so..I’ll admit I haven’t had a flu vaccine for 5 years, luckily I’ve stayed healthy and I’ve not had to deal with the shot stress which made things a little easier for me. I do try for flumist but usually unable to get that. 

So maybe that was an unnecessary long story but point being I’ve so appreciated not being forced to get a shot so maybe mostly because of that, I’d say I’m not in favor of mandatory vaccines for adult HCPs. I’d add that if there was a nasal preparation, I’d likely take that with no problem but again, nice to make the choice myself.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

30 minutes ago, mom_e_bizcut said:

I hear what you're saying when it comes to the mandate, that’s an awful lot of control for any entity to have over your life and body. The schools mandate our kids though and I agree with that, but they don’t mandate EVERY vaccine.  As far as the safety of the vaccine I’m not worried, they’re never 100% safe but they’ve not hurt anyone I know as of yet. I’d never Google anything when it comes to vaccines and I’d be careful who I’d trust when it comes to news broadcasts. 

I’m completely in favor of vaccines, I worked in pediatrics for 6 yrs and the kids in my practice were consistently at 100% for their vaccines, and that includes my own kids who were also stuck by me! What I am not in favor of is SHOTS...when they’re coming into me anyway. My previous employer made the flu vaccine mandatory unless we wanted to wear a mask all day, well I didn’t so... bring on the flu shot! I hated that time of year, I could hear the flu shot cart coming down the hall and I’d panic, hide in the bathroom they’d find me. I’d get sweaty and dizzy, I’d feel faint and you know when all the sudden you can’t see because this darkness comes over your eyes but your still standing??...ya that (can’t think of the word..which is what happens to me when I talk about getting shots)!. I hate shots, I’m afraid of them, I’ve never had any needle willingly enter my body, no piercings not even ears no tattoos. I couldn't concentrate when I knew it was flu shot time. I’ve given literally thousands of shots I’m sure but apparently I can dish it out..I Just can’t take it. I left there and started at a different facility in 2015, they don’t force me to get the flu shot so..I’ll admit I haven’t had a flu vaccine for 5 years, luckily I’ve stayed healthy and I’ve not had to deal with the shot stress which made things a little easier for me. I do try for flumist but usually unable to get that. 

So maybe that was an unnecessary long story but point being I’ve so appreciated not being forced to get a shot so maybe mostly because of that, I’d say I’m not in favor of mandatory vaccines for adult HCPs. I’d add that if there was a nasal preparation, I’d likely take that with no problem but again, nice to make the choice myself.

Well stories like this https://www.bloombergquint.com/politics/norway-vaccine-fatalities-among-people-75-and-older-rise-to-29 are not likely to put your mind at ease.