Yes, Employer Can Require Covid Vaccine

[TheMoonisMyLantern]

Apparently per the EEOC's guidelines employers (not just healthcare related) can mandate vaccination of workers. The exception is a "sincerely held religious belief" or a covered disability. Just found out this morning that a chain of for profit LTC/SNF's are rolling out a Covid vaccine mandate for all direct care staff or face indefinite unpaid administrative leave. I am a heavy supporter of vaccination and of the new COVID vaccine and in fact am due to get one in early January. But I am doing so of my own volition. My facility encouraged all workers to sign up for a vaccine and provided information sessions and it's been really effective at getting people to sign up. 

Even though I would disagree with someone's choice to not vaccinate, I don't believe they should be mandated at this point.

Yes, your employer can require you to get a COVID-19 vaccine, the EEOC says

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

If the 30% or so of healthcare workers that feel the same as me and "stand strong" to our convictions of not taking an experimental forced vaccine we will at the the very least turn a "borderline" staffing shortage in to one that is in "crisis" . We may also be able to bring class action lawsuits (not against vaccine manufacturers) but against hospitals, universities and employers that even if not successful further exacerbate the challenges of organizations attempting to force mandatory vaccination. Since many of us may find ourselves unemployed in any case we may further be able to bring pressure with public protests.  Also given a recent survey of health care workers found as follows:

Among frontline health workers, half of Black workers, 45% of workers without a college degree, and four in ten Republican and Republican-leaning workers say they are not confident the COVID-19 vaccines available in the U.S. have been properly tested for safety and effectiveness. About 1 in 5 of each of these groups also say they will definitely not receive a COVID-19 vaccine.

It may be possible to show that requiring vaccination has at the very least a "disparate impact" on minority health care workers and is therefore a violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act which applies to any employment practice which  has a disproportionate adverse effect on members of a protected class as compared with non members of the protected class. 

[nursej22, MSN, RN]

Could LTC residents and/or their families sue if they were infected and died because staff refused to vaccinate? 

[toomuchbaloney]

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:

Could LTC residents and/or their families sue if they were infected and died because staff refused to vaccinate? 

Good question.  

[toomuchbaloney]

Quote

Among the initial findings:

The unvaccinated group of frontline health care workers includes some who either have their vaccination scheduled (3%) or plan to get vaccinated but haven’t scheduled it yet (15%). It also includes 3 in 10 who have either not decided whether they will get vaccinated (12%) or say they do not plan on receiving a COVID-19 vaccine (18%).

Quote

A large majority of unvaccinated health care workers who either have not decided if they will get vaccinated, or say they do not plan to get vaccinated, say that worries about potential side effects (82%) and the newness of the vaccine (81%) are major factors in their decision making. These are the top concerns across the different demographic groups of unvaccinated health care workers including Black health care workers, Hispanic health care workers, and White health care workers.

KFF/Post Survey of Frontline Health Care Workers Finds Nearly Half Remain Unvacci

Quote

Among frontline health workers, half of Black workers, 45% of workers without a college degree, and four in ten Republican and Republican-leaning workers say they are not confident the COVID-19 vaccines available in the U.S. have been properly tested for safety and effectiveness. About 1 in 5 of each of these groups also say they will definitely not receive a COVID-19 vaccine.

Quote

Access to a COVID-19 vaccine from an employer is a key aspect of vaccination rates among frontline health care workers. 6 in 10 health care workers who are not self-employed say they were either offered or received a COVID-19 vaccine from their employer (including 84% of vaccinated health care workers). Reflecting the overall vaccination rates among frontline health care workers, the share of workers who were offered a COVID-19 vaccine from their employer was much lower among those working in patients’ homes (34%).

Interesting survey. 

How unfortunate that vaccination decision making is so often based in politics for conservative individuals in this moment in time. 

[amoLucia]

How could it BE PROVEN???  Not just a guess?

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:

Could LTC residents and/or their families sue if they were infected and died because staff refused to vaccinate? 

 

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

1 hour ago, nursej22 said:

Could LTC residents and/or their families sue if they were infected and died because staff refused to vaccinate? 

They would have to show several elements:

a.  That the person who declined vaccination didn't' have natural immunity (usually it is difficult to demonstrate any one person transmitted).

b. Also, we don't know that vaccination offers absolute protection against transmission. Thus someone who is vaccinated could also transmit the virus (albeit at a lower risk).  

c.  Most importantly people who decline have little if any assets. 

The right to refuse vaccinations or medicines is a "line in the sand" that many of us will literally stand on to the point of organizing very well defined resistance, civil disobedience.  You can put me in an interment camp. Heck at this point I might literally choose execution over vaccination just over the principles involved. Not because the vaccine isn't safe or effective but because control over health care and what I take or don't take is such a fundamental right.  This might be the issue that finally gets some states leave the union and form constitutional republics.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

2 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

KFF/Post Survey of Frontline Health Care Workers Finds Nearly Half Remain Unvacci

Interesting survey. 

How unfortunate that vaccination decision making is so often based in politics for conservative individuals in this moment in time. 

The same survey found that black individuals (who as a whole are less conservative) declined vaccination at an even greater rate (50%) than conservatives.  Thus, it isn't only political leaning that guides this. Also this is a survey of healthcare workers. You can count on the general population resistance being even more firm.

[amoLucia]

myoglobin - my point is that proving absolute cause & effect disease would be difficult for some lawsuit.

[toomuchbaloney]

2 minutes ago, amoLucia said:

How could it BE PROVEN???  Not just a guess?

 

They can use viral genome sequencing, that would be absolute proof.  Good contact tracing could be compelling evidence that might get past the reasonable doubt threshold. 

 

[toomuchbaloney]

5 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

The same survey found that black individuals (who as a whole are less conservative) declined vaccination at an even greater rate (50%) than conservatives.  Thus, it isn't only political leaning that guides this. Also this is a survey of healthcare workers. You can count on the general population resistance being even more firm.

I commented upon the portion which did discuss political influence.  It's unfortunate that so many people are firmly set against vaccination because of partisan political beliefs, unfounded fears or misinformation.  

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

The disparate impact argument  under Title VII need only prove that a protected class is more negatively affected by an employer decision (such as not being able to work if not vaccinated) than non protected classes.  Even if that isn't the intent it can still be actionable.  Also class action lawsuits such as the one's I propose would go after the "big pockets" of Corps. Individuals such as myself who decline by and large have little to nothing that could be gained from lawsuits.  

The right to decline medication or vaccination has nothing to do with politics, it is a fundamental human right. Even institutionalized individuals in states like California can decline medication and to force them to take medication takes a specific order from a judge. 

If we the many who choose to decline vaccination are compelled under force there will likely be chaos beyond what this nation has ever seen certainly not in the last 120 years.  Hopefully, it will be peaceful, like the marches Dr. King led in the 60's and will also involve successful legal opposition.

[MunoRN, RN]

9 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

The disparate impact argument  under Title VII need only prove that a protected class is more negatively affected by an employer decision (such as not being able to work if not vaccinated) than non protected classes.  Even if that isn't the intent it can still be actionable.  Also class action lawsuits such as the one's I propose would go after the "big pockets" of Corps. Individuals such as myself who decline by and large have little to nothing that could be gained from lawsuits.  

The right to decline medication or vaccination has nothing to do with politics, it is a fundamental human right. Even institutionalized individuals in states like California can decline medication and to force them to take medication takes a specific order from a judge. 

If we the many who choose to decline vaccination are compelled under force there will likely be chaos beyond what this nation has ever seen certainly not in the last 120 years.  Hopefully, it will be peaceful, like the marches Dr. King led in the 60's and will also involve successful legal opposition.

By combining the principles behind the right to refuse a medication and the right to refuse vaccination without any consequences you're conflating two completely different principles that our freedoms are based on.

You of course should have the right to refuse medications, since that is a decision that affects you, but the choice to vaccinate affects others to a much larger degree.  Our freedoms have never freely allowed people to put others at risk without the possibility of consequences.  

I would agree that people the right to decline to get vaccinated, but nursing home residents should also have the right to avoid unnecessary risk by employers of nursing home staff requiring that staff be vaccinated if they want to work there.  

The key is that everyone has freedoms and rights, and that means everyone, your rights and freedoms can't completely override that of others.