Yes, Employer Can Require Covid Vaccine

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Specializes in Mental health, substance abuse, geriatrics, PCU. Has 15 years experience.

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myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN

Specializes in ICU, trauma, neuro. Has 14 years experience. 1,453 Posts

2 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

One difference is that it is my understanding that with traditional vaccines should you have a bad reaction you can get compensation from the Congressional compensation fund (that relieves pharmacy companies from liability). However, with the emergency use requirement this is not an option. They do provide (you say) a religious belief exception. This was not an option with my hospital and the influenza vaccine, no exceptions except for specific allergic reactions to the vaccine.  Thus, my "go to" would be that exception.

Also, if these reports https://thenewamerican.com/covid-vaccine-adverse-reactions-noted-bio-buttons-to-monitor-results/ hold up I believe that the employers who mandate these vaccines might make themselves vulnerable to class action lawsuits by those workers forced to take the vaccines.  Also, all it would take is a "fraction" nurses to not accept the vaccine and go to someplace that doesn't require the vaccination to quickly cripple this policy of forced vaccination.

chare

3,225 Posts

38 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

One difference is that it is my understanding that with traditional vaccines should you have a bad reaction you can get compensation from the Congressional compensation fund (that relieves pharmacy companies from liability). However, with the emergency use requirement this is not an option. ...

I believe you are referring to the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

41 minutes ago, myoglobin said:

... However, with the emergency use requirement this is not an option. ...

True, however you do have some relief through the Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program.

EK, RN

4 Posts

That is what I heard as well.

bitter_betsy, BSN

Specializes in Emergency / Disaster. Has 3 years experience. 448 Posts

Until I can be assured that I won't die from an anaphylactic reaction or suffer long term effects from said reaction - it won't be mandatory for me.  I'm willing to work in the areas and get vaccinated with a vaccine that is safe for me - they haven't proved either of these is safe for me yet.  Heck - I can't even walk into the break room with Chick Fil A on the table without an EPI pen so...  nope.  I can't provide care if I'm dead or have a severe disability.

brandy1017, ASN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. 2,684 Posts

On 12/26/2020 at 7:16 AM, TheMoonisMyLantern said:

As hypocritical as this is going to sound, I agree with that. Even though that vaccine carries risk with it, due to how vulnerable the patient population is in the NICU I can see the reason for mandation. That being said we have a lot more information on the MMR that to me invokes a higher level of trust.

Hmm.. I don't know, maybe I'm just ornery or a hypocrite. 

Doesn't everyone get MMR?  I did as a child I thought it was one of the routine vaccines people get.

brandy1017, ASN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. 2,684 Posts

11 hours ago, bitter_betsy said:

Until I can be assured that I won't die from an anaphylactic reaction or suffer long term effects from said reaction - it won't be mandatory for me.  I'm willing to work in the areas and get vaccinated with a vaccine that is safe for me - they haven't proved either of these is safe for me yet.  Heck - I can't even walk into the break room with Chick Fil A on the table without an EPI pen so...  nope.  I can't provide care if I'm dead or have a severe disability.

Yes that is my main concern for this vaccine as I have a hx of pcn anaphylaxis where my throat started closing up and I felt like I couldn't even swallow.  No symptoms until one night out of the blue bam.  

Where I live all the hospitals mandate the flu vaccine as I hated it as I was aware I was at risk for GB esp as over 50 and had taken care off several patients who got it after a flu vaccine.  We even had a coworker who got GB from the flu vaccine, but thankfully recovered.

I believe I already had Corona this Spring but they wouldn't test me so I don't know for sure.   I am retired now, but if I was still working I'd probably get it.  

One thing that does bother me is that the govt has gone above and beyond to offer immunity to the pharmaceutical companies for any adverse reaction, and limited recourse for people who may be harmed by the vaccine.   They already had immunity and you have to go to the govt for compensation, but they have specifically changed the rules for anyone injured by this vaccine.  That is wrong, but most people and the general public for sure won't know any of this.

Edited by brandy1017

MunoRN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience. 7,756 Posts

12 hours ago, brandy1017 said:

Yes that is my main concern for this vaccine as I have a hx of pcn anaphylaxis where my throat started closing up and I felt like I couldn't even swallow.  No symptoms until one night out of the blue bam.  

Where I live all the hospitals mandate the flu vaccine as I hated it as I was aware I was at risk for GB esp as over 50 and had taken care off several patients who got it after a flu vaccine.  We even had a coworker who got GB from the flu vaccine, but thankfully recovered.

I believe I already had Corona this Spring but they wouldn't test me so I don't know for sure.   I am retired now, but if I was still working I'd probably get it.  

One thing that does bother me is that the govt has gone above and beyond to offer immunity to the pharmaceutical companies for any adverse reaction, and limited recourse for people who may be harmed by the vaccine.   They already had immunity and you have to go to the govt for compensation, but they have specifically changed the rules for anyone injured by this vaccine.  That is wrong, but most people and the general public for sure won't know any of this.

A flu vaccine is actually the best way to avoid Guillain-Barre since you are far more likely to get GB from the flu than you are from the vaccine.  The same is true for the Covid vaccine, even for the lowest risk groups there is a far greater chance of harm or death from Covid than there is from a vaccine.  

brandy1017, ASN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. 2,684 Posts

28 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

A flu vaccine is actually the best way to avoid Guillain-Barre since you are far more likely to get GB from the flu than you are from the vaccine.  The same is true for the Covid vaccine, even for the lowest risk groups there is a far greater chance of harm or death from Covid than there is from a vaccine.  

I can only say what I've seen re GB and the flu vaccine.  I took care of 3 patients they were all over 50.  One man was totally paralyzed but could breathe on his own.  I was told he eventually recovered but it took a year and he was so despondent that he killed himself.  I remember him clearly 75 year old active, healthy guy who rode his motorcycle across country and then felled by the flu vaccine.   It was so sad and from that time I avoided the flu vaccine till it was made mandatory.  

I did more research on GB and the flu vaccine and read that the risk was highest for people over 50 years old.  Although the coworker was in her 30's only and had children and a family.  She did recover quickly thank God.  I know for myself I will not take the flu vaccine now that I'm retired.

As for the Corona vaccine you are probably right that the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of a bad outcome of Corona.  I have several health problems that put me at higher risk, but also an anaphylactic RX to pcn so I'm not in a hurry to take the vaccine.  I'm not sure what I will do.  

Edited by brandy1017

toomuchbaloney

Has 44 years experience. 7,912 Posts

2 minutes ago, brandy1017 said:

I can only say what I've seen re GB and the flu vaccine.  I took care of 3 patients they were all over 50.  One man was totally paralyzed but could breathe on his own.  I was told he eventually recovered but it took a year and he was so despondent that he killed himself.  I remember him clearly 75 year old active, healthy guy who rode his motorcycle across country and then felled by the flu vaccine.   It was so sad and from that was the moment I avoided the flu vaccine till it was made mandatory.  

I did more research on GB and the flu vaccine and read that the risk was highest for people over 50 years old.  Although the coworker was in her 30's only and had children and a family.  She did recover quickly thank God.  I know for myself I will not take the flu vaccine now that I'm retired.

As for the Corona vaccine you are probably right that the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of a bad outcome of Corona.  I have several health problems that put me at higher risk, but also an anaphylactic RX to pcn so I'm not in a hurry to take the vaccine.  I'm not sure what I will do.  

Are you saying that you've never cared for a patient with GB following viral infection? 

brandy1017, ASN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. 2,684 Posts

10 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Are you saying that you've never cared for a patient with GB following viral infection? 

No I haven't cared for a patient that had GB from a viral infection, although I am aware that can happen.  I have taken care of a  young mother who developed almost total paralysis, she could move her arms a little; less than a year after she had her baby.  There was not an official diagnosis.  They did not diagnose her with GB.  It was a mystery as to what caused it.  She had a positive attitude and had found a support group on the internet.  She came to us because we had a world renowned neurologist at our hospital.  They were treating her with plasmapheresis and steroids.  I don't know the outcome, although I pray for her and her family that she did recover. 

Another young patient I took care of had paralysis of her lower legs that started with numbness and they didn't have a diagnosis for her either.  I don't know if she recovered, but I hope and pray she did.  Many times because of working 3 days I week I would take care of someone and then the next time I came back to work they were already gone, either home or to a nursing home so didn't always know pt outcomes.

Edited by brandy1017

toomuchbaloney

Has 44 years experience. 7,912 Posts

49 minutes ago, brandy1017 said:

No I haven't cared for a patient that had GB from a viral infection, although I am aware that can happen.  I have taken care of a  young mother who developed almost total paralysis, she could move her arms a little; less than a year after she had her baby.  There was not an official diagnosis.  They did not diagnose her with GB.  It was a mystery as to what caused it.  She had a positive attitude and had found a support group on the internet.  She came to us because we had a world renowned neurologist at our hospital.  They were treating her with plasmapheresis and steroids.  I don't know the outcome, although I pray for her and her family that she did recover. 

Another young patient I took care of had paralysis of her lower legs that started with numbness and they didn't have a diagnosis for her either.  I don't know if she recovered, but I hope and pray she did.  Many times because of working 3 days I week I would take care of someone and then the next time I came back to work they were already gone, either home or to a nursing home so didn't always know pt outcomes.

That's why it's not a good idea to rely upon individual anecdotal experience for decision making.  Your lack of experience with the syndrome following viral infection isn't a good reason to decide that the vaccine creates increased risk for the complication and thus you should hesitate to vaccinate. 

MunoRN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience. 7,756 Posts

5 hours ago, brandy1017 said:

I can only say what I've seen re GB and the flu vaccine.  I took care of 3 patients they were all over 50.  One man was totally paralyzed but could breathe on his own.  I was told he eventually recovered but it took a year and he was so despondent that he killed himself.  I remember him clearly 75 year old active, healthy guy who rode his motorcycle across country and then felled by the flu vaccine.   It was so sad and from that time I avoided the flu vaccine till it was made mandatory.  

I did more research on GB and the flu vaccine and read that the risk was highest for people over 50 years old.  Although the coworker was in her 30's only and had children and a family.  She did recover quickly thank God.  I know for myself I will not take the flu vaccine now that I'm retired.

As for the Corona vaccine you are probably right that the risk of the vaccine is less than the risk of a bad outcome of Corona.  I have several health problems that put me at higher risk, but also an anaphylactic RX to pcn so I'm not in a hurry to take the vaccine.  I'm not sure what I will do.  

You are far more likely to have GB after an influenza illness than you are after getting a flu vaccine (depending on the source, 15 to 40 times more likely).  If you don't want GB then getting the flu vaccine is one of the best ways to avoid getting it.