Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

zenman · Mar 3, 2005

If I concentrate really hard, will you be able to guess what I'm thinking? My weight? My mother's maiden name? :) Just kidding. Really :chuckle

Your mother is one scary woman! :chuckle

zenman · Mar 3, 2005

Race, gender, degree, when will it ever end?????? We are our own worst enemy

We are human nature at it's finest. :clown:

actioncat · Mar 3, 2005

Our recruitment party was attended by people from the University of Texas Health Science Center hospital representatives looking for nurses to work in their many facilities. When asked why they didn't just use the graduates from their BSN program they said, "Because they don't have enough hands on patient experience to work on the floors. We hire them into the entry-level management postions we have open." I was there for this comment and can attest to that fact that it was indeed said by the person responsible for hiring. Says a lot about the difference in the direction of the courses.

Huh? this just does not seem likely. I mean, do they really hire any new grads expecting that they are ready to go without any sort of precepting? I hardly beleive simply because some one got more "hands on" experience in school (and this is not really the case where I live) they are already competent nurses. I would think the differences in skill levels fade over time-- in at least a few months.

I'm sorry, but where I work the ADN grads are no more/less clueless than the BSN grads. Also, the BSN grads are just as likely to have worked as techs.

I have never seen a new nurse that is not struggling at times regardless of program they graduated from.

What the heck is an "entry level" management postion anyway?

Also, I would think that any academic hospital whether it has a nursing school affiliated or not would be searching for nurses from all nursing schools, not simply the one affiliated with it. There are probably more open positions than can be filled by the grads of one nursing school.

As for more pay, I do receive more than the ADN nurses, but it is not much. I suppose it adds up over a long time. At first I felt a tiny bit guilty about it-- after all, I am doing the same work, but then again, I will not have to take advantage of tutition assistance for completing a BSN. That can add up too!

Jay Levan · Mar 3, 2005

In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)

I believe I took the same Board exams (I am a Diploma R.N.) as the degreed candidates for licensure. I also believe My board exams would NOT be passed by the majority of the nurses graduating today. I have thirty two years experience, should I be paid less than a nurse with a degree?? Nursing is not about degrees, it's about taking very good care of people. Will you make it for thirty years? Only God knows the answer to that.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 3, 2005

I'm sorry, but where I work the ADN grads are no more/less clueless than the BSN grads. Also, the BSN grads are just as likely to have worked as techs.
I have never seen a new nurse that is not struggling at times regardless of program they graduated from.

I agree 100%. That's been my experience as well. Regardless of degree, of amount of clinical time, a new RN is a new RN and they both have the same precepting/orientation needs.

tvccrn, ASN, RN · Mar 3, 2005

Huh? this just does not seem likely. I mean, do they really hire any new grads expecting that they are ready to go without any sort of precepting? I hardly beleive simply because some one got more "hands on" experience in school (and this is not really the case where I live) they are already competent nurses. I would think the differences in skill levels fade over time-- in at least a few months.
I'm sorry, but where I work the ADN grads are no more/less clueless than the BSN grads. Also, the BSN grads are just as likely to have worked as techs.
I have never seen a new nurse that is not struggling at times regardless of program they graduated from.
What the heck is an "entry level" management postion anyway?
Also, I would think that any academic hospital whether it has a nursing school affiliated or not would be searching for nurses from all nursing schools, not simply the one affiliated with it. There are probably more open positions than can be filled by the grads of one nursing school.
As for more pay, I do receive more than the ADN nurses, but it is not much. I suppose it adds up over a long time. At first I felt a tiny bit guilty about it-- after all, I am doing the same work, but then again, I will not have to take advantage of tutition assistance for completing a BSN. That can add up too!

I never said that I agreed with what was said. I only know that it WAS said. As for the entry level management positions, I am not aware of what they were as I am an ADN and was not looking for that so I didn't ask. That was 10 years ago and I was fresh out of school. If I were to hear that remark now, I would definitely ask.

mac23 · Mar 3, 2005

I really think that people need to stop knocking the ADN programs that are available out there and the BSN'ers need to get down from their high horse and give AS/DN'ers the credit that's due them for the equally hard work they did to earn their license.

I just have to say I don't think I'm on any high horse because I have my BSN. When thinking about careers I didn't really know what I wanted to do coming out of high school. I did know, however, that I wanted to go to a large university that had a football team and I wanted to stay in-state and I wanted to go to the same school as my best friend. I have NO regrets about my degree or my college experience nor should anyone who chooses the path that is right for them.

I also don't know where the BSN's don't get enough clinical time came from. At least in my program our instructors would not just let us sit around and twiddle our thumbs. :angryfire We didn't have time. We did take 2 patients once we got to med/surg so we had plenty of patient care to do. There were some things we had to do in the presence of our instructor. So 8 students with 2 patients means the 1 instructor was responsible for 16 patients! Some nurses would not let us do certain things without our instructor being there so maybe some of the "sitting around":rolleyes: was simply waiting. Once we got to clinical, got report, reviewed the chart, saw our patient, did am care, assessed, meds, etc etc etc there was plenty for us to be doing. And yes at times I took the time to look-up procedures, new meds, a diagnosis that I was not familiar with.

When I walk through the double doors at work I don't look at my co-workers and think about what kind of degree they have I can't say it's ever crossed my mind. And I agree with those that have said new grads from both programs need precepting. A lot of what you learn in nursing is on the job. (especially true in my area-NICU) I don't care how much clinical you had in school.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 3, 2005

I just have to say I don't think I'm on any high horse because I have my BSN.

Having a BSN is something to be proud of. Just because someone has the self-esteem to be pleased with their degree doesn't mean they are on a high horse.

There are a relatively few that are arrogant about it, but I've only come across on BSN trained nurse that looked down on ADNs. So I can't say BSN nurses are on any kind of high horse, based on a couple of people.

SmilingBluEyes · Mar 4, 2005

I have come across BSN nurses who look down on ADN nurses only ONE place in my career. Here at allnurses.com. Shame.

nursbee04 · Mar 4, 2005

Your mother is one scary woman! :chuckle

Hey now! Be nice! :rolleyes:

begalli · Mar 4, 2005

I have come across BSN nurses who look down on ADN nurses only ONE place in my career. Here at allnurses.com. Shame.

This is true for me also. There is no denying that folks have voiced this opinion of superiority or advanced knowledge due to degree. One example is posts by zenman in this very thread (but I really don't know what to think of him, he's surely a character :uhoh3: ). Maybe more people think it but just don't voice it in person? With the anonymity of the internet, I think this is entirely possible. I have not once in all my years of nursing heard this discussion at work or at school.

btw, I made that statement - high horse - after spending hours researching the BSN and ASN nursing programs in my area. After doing all that work I thought to myself, my goodness, there is virtually no difference between the two programs except a handful of classes and a little more clinical time for the ASN's. With the Associate program it takes 2 full years to acquire the pre-req's that must be completed prior to admission into the nursing program. The BSN includes the pre-reqs.

Both go to school for 4 years.

mac23 - I try not to make blanket statements. Maybe I should have said "those BSN'ers who ARE on a high horse..." (they do exist). I didn't mean to say you or a majority of posters here at allnurses were on a high horse. I am ALL FOR higher education and especially four year colleges for young adults (see my previous posts).

:)

Tinkerbell2 · Mar 4, 2005

I live in Louisiana. I have heard (from practicing RN's) that ADN's and BSN's get paid the same here. The BSN's may have a few more opportunities as far as positions go, though. For example: Most hospitals require a BSN to work in Neonatal Care Unit.

That is the area that I am interested in. I plan to pursue my ADN first and then, after working a year, bridge over to BSN. There is more pre-clinical coursework to the BSN degree, however, the ADN's program is very challenging b/c they cram alot of information in fewer classes. Most of what the ADN nursing student has to learn must be learned on their own.

Warning to all Louisiana prospective nursing students. NSU (shreveport campus) is the "nursing school from Hell". They don't call them the Northwestern Demons for nothing ! They make it especially difficult for the ADN students b/c they prefer everyone to go for the BSN program

(more time+more money for the school). There have recently been other nursing programs starting up in the area, so NSU will no longer have the monopoly on the northwest La market for nursing schools. They unnecessarily maintain an advesarial position with their students. The instructors tell you from day one - "I don't care if you pass" !! And they really don't !! They need to come off of their pious "high horse" and I hope that more nursing programs open in the area to bring them down more !!