Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

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In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)

who the heck cares? your bsn might earn a quarter to a dollar more than my adn...we are both here for the same reason, to care for the patient...you have more theory and research, i have more clinical time...but we're both here to care for the patient...i couldn't afford a 4 year degree, so i got a 2 year degree...and i'll bet that i am as good a nurse as you are...i have no desire to get into administration, so a bsn means little to me...as a matter of fact, if i choose to further my education, i will do a bridge msn program...i respect your degree, as long as you can do your job...please respect mine, as long as i can do mine!

Lee

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Specializes in Trauma ICU, MICU/SICU.
All ADNs and BSNs are not equal. We all graduate from simular programs; the BSN has more depth , the ADN has more skills so we can go out there and work.

The biggest difference is the background before coming to nursing school.

I think that this statement is WAY over-generalized. I am an ADN student and I also work at the largest teaching hospital in my area. I see the BSN's doing their clinicals where I work and I can tell you, they are way more together and get more hands on than we do in my clinicals. I think that perhaps in the past many BSN programs focused too much on theory and not enough on hands on. However today, I think many nursing programs including ADN programs are lacking in hands on. From what I've been told by the academics is the insurance coverage is so expensive that we are not allowed to do a lot of procedures. For example, I can pass meds, but no IV push. I can do a push through the BART only. We cannot start IV's and we cannot draw blood.

I know however that the NCLEX pass rate in my school is over 90%. So I realize that nursing school prepares me to pass NCLEX and to fulfill the state BON's requirement for clinical TIME (definitely quantity not quality).

And yes, as an ADN student I too find myself sometimes standing around. With only 2 patients to take care of there is only so much to do. I help out, but I'm a tech and regularly take care of 10-16 patients so no, two just doesn't keep me that busy.

As for the value of a BSN degree, that is up to what the individual sees in it. Personally, I plan on pursuing my BSN. I however, would never look down on someone who chose not to.

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I think that this statement is WAY over-generalized. I am an ADN student and I also work at the largest teaching hospital in my area. I see the BSN's doing their clinicals where I work and I can tell you, they are way more together and get more hands on than we do in my clinicals. I think that perhaps in the past many BSN programs focused too much on theory and not enough on hands on. However today, I think many nursing programs including ADN programs are lacking in hands on. From what I've been told by the academics is the insurance coverage is so expensive that we are not allowed to do a lot of procedures. For example, I can pass meds, but no IV push. I can do a push through the BART only. We cannot start IV's and we cannot draw blood.

I know however that the NCLEX pass rate in my school is over 90%. So I realize that nursing school prepares me to pass NCLEX and to fulfill the state BON's requirement for clinical TIME (definitely quantity not quality).

And yes, as an ADN student I too find myself sometimes standing around. With only 2 patients to take care of there is only so much to do. I help out, but I'm a tech and regularly take care of 10-16 patients so no, two just doesn't keep me that busy.

As for the value of a BSN degree, that is up to what the individual sees in it. Personally, I plan on pursuing my BSN. I however, would never look down on someone who chose not to.

Well said!

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac Medicine, Retail Health.

Whats with the fireworks over three letters! No matter what type of question is asked about nursing education, it seems to turn into a raging, at times explosive, debate. Cant we accept the system thats in place? Is there any concrete evidence that shows BSN's are better than ADN's, who are better than Diploma grads? If tangible evidence did exist, wouldnt ADN and Diploma programs become legislated out of existence. Its not the schools that set the pay policy, its the hospitals. Based on the pay rates in most areas for nurses (new grads included), the old saying "an RN is an RN" seems to be true, with very few exceptions. So, I must ask, is it nurses who devalue nursing education, or is it corperate America? In MHO, nurses are expending great time and energy on an issue they have little control over, yet, let other more important issues (we know what they are) fly under the radar. Does anyone know if this "great debate" occur within the ranks of Rad Techs or Dental Hygeinist? They seem more accepting of their PEERS regardless of the level of education obtained to enter the profession.

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In my experience, BSN's have often been paid more than ADN's. Admittedly not much but there is usually some difference. I think education makes more difference in terms of opportunity. BSN's often have more positions to choose from and are considered more strongly for certain positions because of advanced education.

I am an ASN an I am quite comfortable with my skill/knowledge level in my position. I am a hospice nurse and I am not convinced that having a BSN would make me a better hospice nurse. However, I do think that advancing ones education shows initiative and more knowledge can only make you a more well rounded person. This should be worth something.

I agree with you BobL. I'm an ADN and quite comfortable also but have had some doors not even open because I don't have a BSN. I usually advise people going into nursing to go ahead and get a bachelors if at all possible. My goal was to get an associates then go on. With working and kids it just didn't happen. Now that my son is grown and gone off into the service :(....I plan on taking advantage of my employers tuition reinbersement and go for my BSN. Don't know exactly how it will change my practice....if it does at all.

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i agree with you bobl. i'm an adn and quite comfortable also but have had some doors not even open because i don't have a bsn. i usually advise people going into nursing to go ahead and get a bachelors if at all possible. my goal was to get an associates then go on. with working and kids it just didn't happen. now that my son is grown and gone off into the service :(....i plan on taking advantage of my employers tuition reinbersement and go for my bsn. don't know exactly how it will change my practice....if it does at all.

i don't want to make light of anyone's education, but we do have control, if we can have some agreements among nurses (like herding cats, right?) i have a bsn, but i went to a community college, too...only i got a science degree there. i hope getting more education changes you in ways you never dreamed, because it has done that for the nurses that i went to bsn school with...they attended our junior and senior electives classes. one of those nurses became a very good friend of mine, and in doing some of her projects with me, decided she wanted to change directions in her career, and the bsn gave her the confidence to do it. i'm behind her all the way. it also forced her to learn some new writing skills (we wrote a lot of papers!!) and research skills. education cannot hurt you or your practice...why would you imagine it would? or is the worry that it will be meaningless, and a waste of time? i'm 39 years old, and nursing is my 3rd career. i have 4 degrees in different subjects. education changes you in sometimes subtle, sometimes profound ways. its not cheap, and not necessarily easy, but it has always, always been worth it for me. i wish you all the best. :)

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac Medicine, Retail Health.

ASN, Diploma, and BSN are the entry level educational requirements to become an RN. In my opinion, nurses with higher education are rewarded by having the option of furthering their careers, which equates to higher earnings (FNP, CRNA, Clinical Nurse Specialist). Also some jobs are not open to diploma, and ASN nurses. It is my opinion that all new grad nurses should start off at the same pay rate, since all are entry level nurses with minimal experience. We all know that more education equates to more opportunity, not only in nursing, but in all aspects of the work place.

Another question that I ponder; should nurse pay be based on skill/experience, or education? Should a BSN with 2 years experience be paid more than an ADN with 7 years experience? Which nurse is better prepared? What about the ADN/Diploma nurses with a Bachelor, or higher degree of education? In my ADN class, more than half the students have their Bachelors, and a few their Masters. Should nursing be divided into sub professions? BSN's will do all of the paper work, ADN's all of the patient care. There is no easy fix to this dilema other than requiring the same base education for all. Which is a long way from becoming reality.

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[There is no easy fix to this dilema other than requiring the same base education for all. Which is a long way from becoming reality.

It is reality now in Ontario. There is no more 2 year course for RN. Everyone entering the profession now must have a 4yr BScN. I am myself a third year BScN. One thing I have learned that we are taught an enormous amount of theory and often complain that we do not get enough bedside nursing time. Sure the diploma nurses don't have this part of the education, but if you spend time talking to them they think in the same way - they just don't label it as "theory". I have had many non-BScN nurses put us down for not knowing the clinical skills. But I figure if I can take the book work I have done, and learn from experience (both mine and observing practicing nurses) I will also go from novice to expert. The most distressing thing about this whole debate is the fact that it seems to be causing unneccessary strife and division among nurses. I enjoy team nursing, I have learned from PhD, MSN, BScN, diploma RN's, HCAS and even environmental aides. Education definetly opens up more doors but it is not a free ticket to look down on anyone else.

Interestingly, many of my peers in the program have no interest in bedside nursing. I think this is interesting because if you come out of BScN not wanting to bed side nurse and there are no new diploma nurses - then who is going to do pt care? I personally want to get a combined MSN-ACNP after I am done because the few nurses I have met with this actually combine bedside nursing, advanced skills and administrative work. But that is just me.

Finally, I just think that no matter what education or experience you have it is always possible to learn from others. My father has a grade 8 education but I think he is the smartest person I have ever known (I may be biased). Let's share our strengths and help each other with our weaknesses -

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In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)

It's because we all do basically the same job. You can bet your bottom dollar that if companies could get away with paying us CNA wages they would. I have not found that my ADN impairs my ability to function either as a bedside nurse or as a manager. I have been paid the most by far to manage others which I am good at. I am thankful that I get paid for the job I do and not for the degree I hold.

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So many commetns about hospitals wanting all BSN staff. WHY? I find that amazing. Yes, I am aware of all RN hospitals (there are many here) but I am one of the lucky ones.

My hospital sees the value of LPNs and strives to improve our scope within the BON.

I work in a great hospital, one where pt care comes first and the need to advertise "we have an all RN staff" is not needed to bring pts our way. Excellent pt outcome and personal care are all we need.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
So many commetns about hospitals wanting all BSN staff. WHY? I find that amazing. Yes, I am aware of all RN hospitals (there are many here) but I am one of the lucky ones.

My hospital sees the value of LPNs and strives to improve our scope within the BON.

I work in a great hospital, one where pt care comes first and the need to advertise "we have an all RN staff" is not needed to bring pts our way. Excellent pt outcome and personal care are all we need.

And this is part of what disturbs me about all-BSN arguments. People say the ONLY way to elevate nursing to the level of that of PT, OT, Pharm, etc is to make us all-BSN. Just exactly where that leaves the LPN in this scheme is always unanswered. Some ellude to making them patient care techs or some order like that. But I don't see how you can remove the title of "nurse" from LVN/LPNs. So the answer remains unclear, at least to me.

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I have my ASN and did so because it was the quickest(and cheapest ) way to get out and earn some money.Where I work now,I am in an administrative position but in order for me to go somewhere else and do the same type of job OR a higher level job, I would need my BSN. My experience includes acute care to long term care to hospice(my true love).I have worked as a NA, floor nurse,unit leader,manager/supervisor.---Yet I can't advance in another setting because I don't have--phys ed,stat,nutr,1 engl and some leadership/community health/research nursing classes( interesting but necessary for me?) I had an employer tell me once that I was empathetic and compassionate and that can't be taught.Knowledge comes with experience and that occurs over time!I'm 28 credits shy from a BSN-which I will get-not for the increase pay-but for the future opportunities it will bring.It doesn't make me a better nurse-only experience can do that. At my current job-we do not get payed more for being a degree nurse.Diploma(we have quite a few)/ASN/BSN all get payed the same.

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