Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

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In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)

And this is part of what disturbs me about all-BSN arguments. People say the ONLY way to elevate nursing to the level of that of PT, OT, Pharm, etc is to make us all-BSN. Just exactly where that leaves the LPN in this scheme is always unanswered. Some ellude to making them patient care techs or some order like that. But I don't see how you can remove the title of "nurse" from LVN/LPNs. So the answer remains unclear, at least to me.

I've seen that happen when I worked on the east coast. A hospital went all RN staff, made the LPN's basically PCT's that could draw blood and put in foleys. They literally didn't work as LPN's even though in the eyes of the law they were.

Even now as an RN I find the practice insulting to nursing in general.

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Specializes in Oncology.
is there any concrete evidence that shows bsn's are better than adn's, who are better than diploma grads? if tangible evidence did exist, wouldnt adn and diploma programs become legislated out of existence.

actually, there are studies that have been done that show that hospitals with more bsn-prepared nurses have better outcomes. for that reason, some states are beginning to think about changing the way they look at nursing education. i think that new york is actually putting some legislation into place- anyone from ny out there?

whether or not these studies are valid, i still think that by taking liberal arts courses in a bsn program you learn critical thinking and problem solving.

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Specializes in oncology, surgical stepdown, ACLS & OCN.
Why do BSN's and ADN's make the same? Because hospitals don't want to pay BSN's more (they don't want to pay ANY of us more than they have to.) and there is no incentive for them to do so. I'm sure this recent 'study' created to attermpt to demonstrate BSN's give superior care was an attempt to provide incentive to employers.

Now some facilities DO pay a bit more for SOME extra education. I get a buck for my certification in critical care. But my BSN coworkers will not automatically get more $$$ (they can always negotiate for more but there are no promises)

I was in a BSN program about a year ago and decided not to continue, mainly because the classes in that program were political and management

oriented, I have an ASN and prior to that I went to LPN school,so I started my first position as an RN w/ many skills I had been doing for several years.

To me the heart of nursing is at the bedside taking care of patients. I don't want to manage and be in charge of other nurses. I've supervised before and that wasn't too bad. but I prefer pt. care.

The reason BSN's make the same as ASN's is because they take the same

state board test and we all carry the same license, Diploma, ASN. BSN, MSN. The more education you obtain, the more opportunities you have, that is it in a nutschell. I live in the northeast and work in the phila. region and that is how it is here. I work in a cancer hospital on a med-surg floor w/

telemetry. :)

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oh? humm... what states are those?

i have 2 1/2 years of education at a private women's liberal arts college where i studied private voice, piano, advanced music theory, history of opera, english lit., grammar, eng comp, history of art, history of civilization, art composition, etc. now i want to be a nurse. do you think that i should go into a bsn program so that i can begin my career as a bsn instead of an lpn or adn? i think the bsn propaganda is plain old bs. it is afterall a bs not a ba degree. oops, missed my typing class... forgive the typos. :chuckle

is there any concrete evidence that shows bsn's are better than adn's, who are better than diploma grads? if tangible evidence did exist, wouldnt adn and diploma programs become legislated out of existence.

actually, there are studies that have been done that show that hospitals with more bsn-prepared nurses have better outcomes. for that reason, some states are beginning to think about changing the way they look at nursing education. i think that new york is actually putting some legislation into place- anyone from ny out there?

whether or not these studies are valid, i still think that by taking liberal arts courses in a bsn program you learn critical thinking and problem solving.

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
is there any concrete evidence that shows bsn's are better than adn's, who are better than diploma grads? if tangible evidence did exist, wouldnt adn and diploma programs become legislated out of existence.

actually, there are studies that have been done that show that hospitals with more bsn-prepared nurses have better outcomes. for that reason, some states are beginning to think about changing the way they look at nursing education. i think that new york is actually putting some legislation into place- anyone from ny out there?

whether or not these studies are valid, i still think that by taking liberal arts courses in a bsn program you learn critical thinking and problem solving.

those "studies" were funded and sanctioned by 4 year universities not 2 year colleges or other entities. no special interest there to see this outcome riiiight????

and from what i read here, ny already has a shortage problem. going all- bsn is not going to mitigate that one bit.

i also read north dakota has taken steps to back off their all-bsn requirement. tell you anything?

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Specializes in ED, Cardiac Medicine, Retail Health.

Are problem solving/critical thinking not taught in ADN/Diploma programs? BSN programs are only 45 or so years old. Long before that, hospital base programs churned out thousnds of nurses who knew how to think critically. I am in favor of higher education, but lets not overstate its importance, or minimze the education level of non BSN nurses.

This debate intrigues me. If higher education is wanted or needed to justify higher salaries, or more prestige and respect within the medical community, than I can live with that. But dont try to hood wink me into believeing that other sources of nursing education are inadequate. There is a particular hospital in my area that will only hire BSN new grads. It is a Magnet Status hospital, and to keep its status, it will only hire BSN new grads. Its has nothing to do with the level of care provided by ADN/Diploma grads, because they will hire "them" with one year experience. Its all about maintaining its status.

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Specializes in Clinical Risk Management.
In my experience, that difference has been .50-$1.00/hour more. Big deal.

Every .50/hour adds up to $1,000/year. It adds up. I wanted to go through the ADN program but was placed on a one-year waiting list. The BSN program had no waiting list & I realized that I'd finish in the same amount of time. I went for the BSN & have never regretted it.

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:Melody: While reading through this very long thread, I began to see a certain truth reconfirmed to me. As human beings, it is vital for each one us to believe that we matter as individuals. And as such, we value our experiences and can not therefore separate out the intrinsic value to us personally, and the value of the experience itself as a whole. :Melody: Whatever degreed program we each chose or will choose, most us chose because it was right for us personally. Based on our experiences in these programs, we weight these programs accordingly. If you loved your experience, found great value in the way you were taught, you probably have a certain predisposition to rank your program above others (although hopefully not yourself above other nurses with different degrees!) and find that your education was the right way to go. You may have also in the process absorbed negative information or opinions or experiences about other degree programs, and in a very human way, store these up as reinforcing that the way you went is the best way to go. The problems in healthcare are monumental, and nursing degree programs have students beating down their doors, and whether we like it or not, just like used car salesmen, will attempt to convince the students that their program is the best way to be an RN by talking down the competition. As for me, the more life experience and the more education a person has should contribute to more understanding and respect of other human beings, or else, what is the point?

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Every .50/hour adds up to $1,000/year. It adds up. I wanted to go through the ADN program but was placed on a one-year waiting list. The BSN program had no waiting list & I realized that I'd finish in the same amount of time. I went for the BSN & have never regretted it.

Had I been in your shoes I would have done the same thing. There was no BSN or ADN program within 50 miles of me that did not have a 3+ year waiting list so I did LPN first.

Had A BSN program have no waiting list, I would have done it. I was saying "big deal" because I don't feel that it's much compensation for a lot of extra coursework but I'm trying to stay motivated.

It was easier for me to stay motivated going LPN to RN because I could easily see opportunity and money slipping by me every year I wasn't an RN.

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actually, there are studies that have been done that show that hospitals with more bsn-prepared nurses have better outcomes. for that reason, some states are beginning to think about changing the way they look at nursing education. i think that new york is actually putting some legislation into place- anyone from ny out there?

whether or not these studies are valid, i still think that by taking liberal arts courses in a bsn program you learn critical thinking and problem solving.

those studies were well publicized and criticized to have been funded by pro-bsn special interest groups and the all bsn staffed hospitals had lower nurse to patient ratios and more unlicensed support staff than the hospitals that were staffed by adn and/or lpn's that it compared to among other factors that were left out when publishing their findings.

i'd be willing to bet that nurse to patient ratio has a great deal more to do with medication errors and patient outcomes altogether than ones nursing educational preparation.

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those "studies" were FUNDED and SANCTIONED by 4 year UNIVERSITIES NOT 2 year colleges or other entities. No special interest there to see this outcome riiiight????

And from what I read here, NY already has a shortage problem. Going all- BSN is NOT going to mitigate that one bit.

I also read North Dakota has taken steps to back off THEIR all-BSN requirement. Tell you anything?

Not just steps, ND's all BSN requirement blew up right in their face and is no longer.

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Specializes in Clinical Risk Management.

I think that the most important thing is that all RNs are valued and respected for their expertise and the care they provide. How we achieve our goal will be very different, as we are all individuals.

I think it would be fantastic if there was one path to becoming an RN. However, with the current shortage of both nurses and (availability in) schools of nursing, I do not see this as a realistic goal at this time.

So, for those who have their diplomas & are RNs...for those who have ADNs & are RNs...for those with BSNs & are RNs...glad to be working with you!

Later, y'all!

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