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  1. RN34TX

    Not getting charge nurse position

    I get where you might interpret my comment that way, but that's not what I meant. I meant to say choosing someone for a leadership position based on clinical skills and experience alone without considering other factors. I did not mean to say ignore their clinical experience and pick someone who wrote a great thesis. When I was 35 I had a 28 year old manager and I really didn't think she was mature enough for the manager role either. Some 28 year olds might be but she was not. We all know nurses who are experts in their specialty and can run circles around the others but might have difficulty in getting along with others, working together as a team, bullying behavior, etc. I agree that the chosen charge nurse or manager should have top notch clinical skills but we as a profession have traditionally chosen people for leadership roles based on skills and experience alone and that's what needs to change. Almost all of my previous managers and some permanent charge nurses that I've worked with in my career were great nurses but lacked people and leadership skills. Leadership roles go beyond nursing skills and abilities. Nurses at the bedside are leaders and this is where leadership development begins. Your staff nurses who are good at dealing with difficult patients, family members, and colleagues and who consistently set a good example to their peers are the ones you need to encourage to pursue charge and leadership roles, not the nurse who can take the sickest patient on 5 drips but maybe complains constantly and puts down her colleagues, aggressive personality, and has poor stress management and coping skills. Or this great nurse could be the exact opposite. Great nurse but when you put her in a leadership role she ignores bad behavior and problems on the unit because she doesn't want to deal with conflict or doesn't know how and lacks the skills. This is who we have traditionally placed into these roles looking solely at their clinical abilities and not their leadership capabilities and this is how institutions end up with bullying and ineffective nurse managers and charge nurses. Since most people leave their jobs because of their boss, institutions are starting to pay attention to this and it is being studied.
  2. RN34TX

    Not getting charge nurse position

    I would find the highly patronizing comments about not getting a charge position because I'm so good as a staff nurse to be extremely offensive and a cop out for not giving me your real reasons for not choosing me. Having said that, I have also seen someone become my permanent charge nurse simply because she felt entitled because she put in her time and was the most experienced. Current research/literature now demonstrates that choosing someone for leadership positions based on clinical skills and experience has been a tradition in nursing that needs to change. Leadership positions are no longer for people to settle into and slow down as one ages and prepares for retirement. We need people with ambition and get up and go. It it was extremely frustrating to have both a charge nurse and a manager who were desperately hanging onto their positions showing up for work every day sighing, rolling their eyes, and acting like they were so stressed out all the time while counting the days until they could retire. I am now the manager and I chose a charge nurse with pep and get up and go because I feel there is no longer any room for people in leadership positions who can barely get out of bed let alone lead a team. This is might not describe the OP at all and she might not have been chosen based on purely political reasons hence my comments about her managers patronizing remarks. I say to the OP if you have the ambition for this type of position then you need to leave and go for a leadership position in another unit or facility. Your manager does not appreciate your leadership capabilities. I know several people who left hospitals after 10 or 20 years to get an opportunity at an outside hospital for a leadership position to show what they are capable of.
  3. RN34TX

    Nurse Manager Opportunity

    MBARNBSN made some very good points about the possibilities of your situation. They could just be blowing smoke dangling a carrot in front of you to see how much you will do with an empty promise of a manager position. With respect to your questions, My background before becoming a manager was that of a staff and charge nurse, nothing more. My salary change was a $15,000 a year increase. I went into management because my manager was leaving and she wanted to groom me as her replacement and I was deathly afraid of who was going to become my boss if I didn't step up and take the position myself. Prior to this I had no desire to be a manager or supervisor of any kind. Like MBARNBSN said, sometimes the manager has no say so as to who will be replacing him/her and some of my colleagues stated the same thing but they could not have been farther from the truth in my case. My manager's opinion on who should replace her weighed very heavily as it should. What at I learned from that experience is this: If you apply for a manager position and they call and tell you that they are only doing interviews on one particular day only and you need to be there that day or forget it, it means that they already have someone in mind and that the other candidates are being interviewed just to show that they are making an effort to consider other applicants but they already know who they want. The benefits include generally working hours that are not a set schedule as long as you are there during the majority of the business day (I can go into work at 6:30 am or 9:30 am for instance) and if I want to take a day or week off I just take it. I don't have to worry about what other nurses might have put in time off requests for the same time. I also have more authority now to do things that I couldn't do alone as a staff nurse such as stepping in and taking action against workplace bullying/incivility. The cons are that your work is never done and you could easily work from 6am to 10pm every day and still not get caught up with all that administration as well as your staff expects of you. When you work staff, you clock out for the day and it all becomes someone else's problem until you return the next day with a new assignment. I lay awake at night sometimes worrying about things and I know I shouldn't. Didn't do that as a staff nurse except when a particular patient went bad or something. When you you try to stay in the trenches and help out your staff when they are short, your manager work sits undone while you work as a staff nurse taking care of patients. Those are some of the cons.
  4. RN34TX

    Confused: Can EC grad work in colorado or not?

    If your only interest in CO is as a travel nurse, then don't forget that CO is a compact state as is MS. So if you get licensed in MS, you can take travel assignments in CO without having to get a CO license.
  5. RN34TX

    Msn or mha

    OK I think I get where we agree and differ. I think we have two separate situations here. Allow me to me clarify. Yes, CEO and COO positions can be held by someone who happens to be a nurse but it's not generally a requirement so often it's business people with MBA's and MHA's hold these positions. So a nurse with a BSN and either MBA or MHA can and do hold these positions. Agreed. I did not mean to say that nurses with MBA's are going away. That's not what I believe at all. However, for people who are up and coming and wanting to enter into nursing management and nursing administration and move up the nursing chain, yes, positions for nurse managers and nursing directors who do not have an advanced degree in nursing are starting to fade away. My own facility today has nurse managers with only BSN's and no graduate degree and some have MBA's, MHA's, MSN's, or DNP's. I even know one director who only has a BSN. But she has had that job for a long time. No one at my facility is getting a director position these days without an advanced degree and soon this advanced degree will need to be in nursing. Same thing is coming for nurse managers. These degrees might be fine for today but people who are looking at breaking into nursing management and nursing administration (not hospital overall operations and administration) need to look to the future and not just what's going on today because many of these people with other degrees have held these positions for a while. You need to find out what it takes to get a position today and what is trending at other hospitals in the future, not just look at what degrees are currently held by people in their current positions. I lived through LPN's being pushed out of acute care and now the push for more BSN's at the bedside. I can see the writing on the wall and if someone is looking at breaking into nursing management as a new person with no management experience, I urge people to look at the current professional literature out there and where things are heading in the future, not just where things are today at your hospital in your local area because things change and your local area might be behind the times, not ahead.
  6. I see the nurse educator certificate offered as part of some MSN programs. Are they worth getting? Do they have any value in the academic or staff development world? I have no experience with teaching or formal education roles in hospitals so I was wondering if they hold any value for people who hire people into those roles if I decide later that I want to pursue an educator position. Just wondering if it's worth the extra time and money vs. just getting an MSN in a non-education specialty. To clarify, I'm talking about a graduate level certificate in nursing education, not the certification exam itself to become a CNE (certified nurse educator).
  7. RN34TX

    Msn or mha

    Although I like and agree with your post, keep in mind that nurses with BSN's are doing the job now with no masters period so to say that an MSN or MBA alone aren't sufficient to perform the job is a bit misleading. They learned on the job with no accounting or advanced nursing knowledge. This is is more about what employers are wanting or demanding. Just like ADN's can do the job just fine but now employers are wanting BSN's for staff positions. Since I wanted an MBA but my employer and everyone else was saying MSN, a dual degree was originally the answer for me as well. But I just can't justify the time and cost of 63-72 credits for the MSN/MBA for a nurse manager position vs. 36 credits for the MSN alone. I might become a director one day at best but not a CNO. Many CEO's, CNO's, and COO's that I've seen have one masters degree and a few have a doctorate so I thought the dual masters degree was expensive and overkill for me personally. Besides, my thought was instead of a second masters degree I might as well put the time and money into a DNP in nursing leadership/administration. But everyone has different goals, needs, and aspirations. But you are right, the MSN/MBA or MSN/MHA provides for the best edge on the competition and most rounded education.
  8. RN34TX

    Msn or mha

    I will very respectfully disagree. I wanted an MBA and not another nursing degree but that is not where this profession or health organizations are headed. I too see nurse managers with MBA's and MHA's at my facility but this is fading away and my own facility is starting to require MSN's for these positions. I was once an LPN working in acute care med/surg but that has all but disappeared from healthcare. Things change. Large renowned university teaching hospitals are the most likely facilities to already have this in place, not small rural hospitals. Magnet and other driving forces are pushing this initiative. I'm not saying that I agree with these initiatives because I would much rather have gone the MBA or MHA route, but the fact remains that many if not most major hospitals want nursing leaders to have advanced degrees in nursing. An MSN prepared manager can go work in a hospital with a group of mixed bag of credentials where managers have different degrees. The MBA or MHA prepared manager might not be able to attain a nursing leadership position at certain hospitals and this is only going to increase over time. I've never heard of a facilty that gives preference or requires an MBA or MHA over an MSN but I know plenty of facilities that prefer if not require the MSN for nursing leadership positions.
  9. RN34TX

    Don't You Just Love It?

    Now that's one of the best rants that I've read in years. I'd like to add when I'm posting about something that happened during a shift and a student or newbie breaks in with "Oh my is this what I have to look forward to as a nurse? Did I make the wrong career choice, etc. etc." I always want to say that this isn't about you and heaven forbid you picked the wrong major in college. This is about me and what happened during my shift last night and I'm simply venting or maybe reaching out to others who may have experienced similar situations at work. Of course I never say that but I really wish they'd just start their own thread about how they are fretting about their career choices because they are so shocked about what really happens during a nurse's shift. People today have a lot more information available at their fingertips to make career decisions than when I was deciding to become a nurse so I don't get it.
  10. RN34TX

    Is it really easier for male new grad nurses to land a job?

    Those are discriminatory and most likely illegal hiring practices in your state. I'm not saying that those things don't go on in the real world every day, but that DON is an idiot for flat out admitting to engaging in those hiring practices to you as an employee. He/she probably doesn't have enough experience to know to at least keep those discriminatory hiring practices under his/her hat and is asking for a lawsuit and demise of their career. Oh well, that DON probably deserves it out of pure idiocy if nothing else. Survival of the fittest in nursing.
  11. RN34TX

    Is it really easier for male new grad nurses to land a job?

    There are many layers to what's being discussed here. It's not just one factor or simply comparing full-time females to males. Not always, but men tend to go where the money is. This is evident in the fact that you see very few male nurses working in outpatient settings compared to inpatient. Yes I've seen it, but it's by far the exception to see a man who works PRN or part-time because his income is considered supplemental while his female spouse works as the full-time breadwinner. And yes, this is probably because men are still expected to be the breadwinner and women are still expected to compromise their careers to tend to child responsibilities. However, this behavior carries on long after the kids are out of the house. I've worked with many women in the 45 plus club who are still part-time or PRN with no kids at home and they are not in school while their spouses are still the full-time breadwinner. But 45 or older men who are PRN or part-time? I've never seen it unless he has other jobs or school. But getting back to the original topic, yes it is discriminatory to hire men over women. But anyone who thinks that laws truely protect certain groups is living in a fantasy world. I know many female nurse managers who prefer to hire men over women if all other qualifications are equal. I know many female nurses who want to see more men hired into their units. I've heard many complaints from female nurses that women are too gossipy, catty, etc. etc. and that they prefer to work with men instead of other women. My personal opinion is that this might be true to some degree but I've worked in male dominated environments where this behavior had existed with men as well, but I do think it's less dramatic and prevalent. To the OP, my experience and opinion is that yes it's true to an extent. Everyone has personal and family situations to tend to from time to time, but nurse managers are looking for people who aren't going to be "the one" who "always" is expected to go get the kids from school/daycare and needs to leave or miss work because of sick kids or aging parents. I know one couple who are both nurses who actually do share taking turns calling in when kids are sick and share school and daycare issues. But all of the other female nurses I work with that are not single parents, are always the one who need to miss work while their male spouses somehow "can't" ever miss work and be there for the kids.
  12. RN34TX

    Nursing students sue Excelsior College

    Agreed. I don't pay much attention to those types of remarks either because you can slam the program all you want, but my track record, evaluations, and work history speak for themselves and can't be disputed. Regardless of how I feel about the CPNE itself, I'm living proof that the program does work and the states that look down on it don't deserve my talent so it's their loss. The lawsuit to me is another symptom of our sue-happy culture that encourages the shucking of personal responsibility and that everything that goes wrong in one's life is always someone else's fault.
  13. RN34TX

    Nursing students sue Excelsior College

    I'm an EC grad of 2003 and have mixed feelings on the matter. I joined AllNurses a few months after graduating and felt like I was the only one who "passed" who didn't sing the praises of EC. It seemed in those days that if you dared to speak out against EC that you were labeled as bitter or sour grapes for not passing. I even expressed my concerns about the exam after I took and passed it on EC's own "Electronic Peer Network" as it was called back then and was immediately shot down by EC staff. But I did pass (the first time around) and more than 10 years later will still state that yes, it is most definitely a very subjective exam and was not consistent across the board in its testing practices. I believe that any traditional nursing program has potential for favoritism and subjectivity and any school can have the potential for having students who have futures that are at the mercy of unethical and biased instructors. I am very thankful for the opportunity to have had EC as an option and have enjoyed a very successful nursing career since graduating. But I sometimes think that fellow graduates will defend the program to the end because they are afraid that negative remarks about the school will be a reflection on them as RN's who graduated from that program. Having said that, when I enrolled in 1999 it was most definitely clear in the nursing catalog and student handbook exactly what was expected of me and the CPNE pass rate was 57% at that time and it was clearly stated.
  14. RN34TX

    Studying for CAPA/CPAN

    I'm confused. You are studying for both certification exams? In any case I mostly used the purple Perianesthesia certification review questions book more than anything and passed CPAN the first time around in 2011. I used the green Core Curriculum for reference and that was it. I attended a CPAN review class offered by ASPAN and found it not very helpful, too general, and that it way oversimplified the actual exam. Several colleagues of mine took it during the same testing window and most of us studied the purple questions book more than anything and all of us passed.
  15. Not sure about the 70's and 80's, but I started as a CNA in LTC in 1994 and yes the sense of entitlement was prevalent then too. I have some good memories of some very genuine and appreciative families to be fair, but the bad memories are still very vivid and I could only work in LTC or LTAC again if I were on the verge of becoming homeless. Hats off to you nurses and CNA's who work in LTC, either by choice or until you finish school and/or something better comes along.