Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

kea6783 · Mar 4, 2005

For me, it's about possible job advancement in the future and the fact that I think in the future, a larger percentage of my competition will have their BSNs, so I'm pursueing mine now. If a large difference of pay is important to you, I don't think nursing is the right field, in my own opinion. I'm single and have no dependents, (and poor- caching financial aid), so I'm going to get the most education I can now.

ROCK ON NURSES!

tferdaise · Mar 4, 2005

Well I do not know where you live but here in Phoenix, the community college Nursing programs have MORE clinical experience then the nurses who attend ASU or Grand Canyon University. AS far as Pharm class's go, again, here in Phoenix, the ADn nurses have the same PHAM class's as the BSN programs. Personally I do not think a BSN nurse should get paid more then a ADN, they do the same same job, once just get your ready for management. Its all a personal choice when it comes to which degree works for you.

Tony/PHX:balloons:

I personally think it stems from the fact of the supposed 'nursing shortage', and the fact that an ADN takes the same state board exam as a BSN...
As I seem to feel about it...the ADN is put through a excelerated program to get them out and working...less theory, less electives needed, and sadly to say less pharmacology (which I made up on my own...yes I am ADN). We don't take two years before we can see a patient, we start work right away and start treatments very early, so we get to the chase a bit sooner..."

dhornor · Mar 4, 2005

Because they both do the same things. One has no greater authority than the other, just more "book" time.

anonymurse · Mar 4, 2005

More basic than earning potential of different approaches is individual educational need. I'm in a hospital diploma program 'cause I have no health care experience and need as much clinical time as I can get to become a good nurse.

Of course, wanting to be the best I can be probably won't have any impact on my income, inasmuch as nursing is a commodity so far as the health care system is concerned, and vertical "promotion" is no incentive, as I never want to sit behind a desk again.

Actually, I figured out the timing, and I would have spent fewer hours and the same time span becoming an ADN and about 6 months more getting a BSN (which I'm going to get anyway, but the way I'm doing it, it will take a year--whatever).

beanhead61 · Mar 4, 2005

Probably because in the clinical setting at the bedside, they both do the same job.

Exactly - But in my area of the country, there are many career opportunities available to a BSN that are not available to an ADN. Management and administrative roles are often given to BSNs or MSNs preferentially. Also working for insurance companies, etc.

So a BSN doesn't necessarily pay more for the same job, but the marketability aspect of a BSN makes it worth getting. As an experienced (22years) nurse in my 40s, I can tell you that you may not want to stay at bedside full time forever.

There are so many varied career choices for an experienced nurse - management, teaching, advanced practice, administration - where you can really make a difference. You can always pick up extra hours at bedside (like I do) when you want that caring for patients fix.

actioncat · Mar 4, 2005

Yes, this does seem to be the place where BSN degree nurses knock ADN nurses. But even more, I see BSN grads knocked! At work nobody really cares beyond asking a new nurse when they graduated and from where did they graduate. That question is more small talk and curiosity about the school they went to rather than the type of program from which they graduated.

Why do I keep reading ADN programs give you more clinical time? This just does not add up to me. Nursing school for me was 9 quarters (plus the prenursing year). We had clinicals for all nine of those quarters. Associate program-- 7 quarters length with clinicals for 6 quarters.(I looked at both programs) This does not add up and I find it hard to believe that our program was different than others.

So, can we stop it with the ADN nurses are so much more clinically competent fresh out of school? I just think we are all much more alike than different. Lets face it, we are all pretty clueless when we first start! Can't we agree on that. Well, with the exception of new RNs that are transitioning from the LPN role-- they are far more competent if they have worked as an LPN for a while.

zenman · Mar 4, 2005

This is true for me also. There is no denying that folks have voiced this opinion of superiority or advanced knowledge due to degree. One example is posts by zenman in this very thread (but I really don't know what to think of him, he's surely a character ).

I wish some of you would get over thinking I feel superior to anyone else, as I don't. If you feel that way, you might look inside to see where it's coming from.

I do have a lot of experience, and education, because I value it. It doesn't make me any more or less of a person. Because of my education and experience, I can speak to some issues. I started as a CNA, medic, LPN, etc.. and have worked in clinical areas, management, and education. Whether you agree or not is up to you. I, however, like to listen to what others have to say. But I do have no problems voicing my opinion based on my experience. I believe in a BS as entry level...period...but do think there needs to be some changes in it. If I thought I was big cheese, I'd be running the hospital not working with patients.

Some things that bother me are:

1. Pts, OTs, and teachers, for example require a 4 year degree and we, in a much more demanding profession making life and death decisions with clients who are more complex are willing to settle for an associate degree. Don't even try to argue this one! The ADN was created to address a shortage of nurses by providing "Technical nurses." (I did not create the program or name it.) This was a poor decision. I read yesterday in "USA Today" where there is going to be even more of a physician shortage than predicted. You will not...I repeat, will not hear any talk of MD's getting their training cut in half in order to meet the shortage. PTs have 2 year "assistants;" OTs have 2 year "assistants"...and nurses have 2 year grads who are "equal" in the workplace. So, what does this tell you about our profession? What does it tell others? You answer that for yourself.

2. People look at their degree status to determine their self worth. People are not the piece of paper they hold...but it's hard to tell that, isn't it? Is this why some argue more vehemently about higher degrees? I can voice my "opinion" about the Ph.D. but since I don't have one, that's all I can do...give my opinion. Same with CNAs about LPNs, LPNs about RNs, ADNs about BSN, etc.. If you have not walked in that persons shoes, all you have is an opinion. The BSN has only a few areas that are different than the ADN, but they are important areas. More liberal arts classes are a plus, not a minus. You can "think" your degree level might be all you need, but until you advance you won't really know. If an LPN or ADN for example is all you want or all you can afford, fine...and good for you for getting it. Just don't knock higher education...or the grads.

3. None of the below has any relevance to the entry debate:

a. "We all take the same license"

b. "We all take the NCLEX"

c. "We have more clinical than you"

d. "My mom only has a GED and now owns the largest fleet of crop dusters in the world"

e. "I know a Ph.D. nurse who can't even walk straight"

f. "The best nurse I ever saw was a 2 year grad"

The original post asked why most graduates, regardless of degree, make the same. Why? Because we can't even get it all together so we let others do it for us!

zenman · Mar 4, 2005

Warning to all Louisiana prospective nursing students. NSU (shreveport campus) is the "nursing school from Hell". They don't call them the Northwestern Demons for nothing ! They make it especially difficult for the ADN students b/c they prefer everyone to go for the BSN program
(more time+more money for the school). There have recently been other nursing programs starting up in the area, so NSU will no longer have the monopoly on the northwest La market for nursing schools. They unnecessarily maintain an advesarial position with their students. The instructors tell you from day one - "I don't care if you pass" !! And they really don't !! They need to come off of their pious "high horse" and I hope that more nursing programs open in the area to bring them down more !!

Why don't you tell Dr. Planchock about your concerns? I used to teach there and I remember all the faculty members being introduced to students. Everyone was going, "I'm doctor so and so." I got up and said, "Hello, I'm Randy." Some of the faculty gave me the stink eye! It's funny; in medical school they try their best to keep you in where as in nursing they try to kick you out.

begalli · Mar 4, 2005

I wish some of you would get over thinking I feel superior to anyone else, as I don't. If you feel that way, you might look inside to see where it's coming from.

The reason I posted what I did is because you claimed to be able to tell who has what degree by watching them work and you equated the people who have problems to those with the "lower" degrees. But then you say that you think it's a shame that people are singled out by thier degree. You do send mixed messages. It's confusing.

I called you a character because I don't know whether to take you seriously or not. The statement was not meant as a show of disrespect.

This is a problem in communicating on an internet message board. The body language, facial expressions, and inflections of voice cannot be seen or heard. Frequently something is taken out of context because these qualities in communication are missing.

I'm all for education. I'm all for a standardized entry into nursing. But that's not currently the way it is.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Mar 4, 2005

I'm all for education. I'm all for a standardized entry into nursing. But that's not currently the way it is.

Standardization of Requirements to become a RN has been established for years. They have been in place and are currently in place. They also work quite well. This conflict between BSNs Vs ADN and Diploma RNs, comes up every few years fueled entirely by egos. Just think if it wasnt for this ongoing debate, if you didnt have ADNs and Dipolma RNs then the debate would be over the superioity of having MSNs and PHD RNs versus the lowly BSNs.

This system isnt broken by any means so why argue on fixing it. An RN is an RN. Everything else doesnt make you a better RN. Doesnt even make you a better prepared RN, In all my years I have seen as many BSNs and MSNs escorted by security out of the hospital as ADNs. And yes Ive been around for a long time and will be for a while yet. And Im a well paid RN, and good at what I do though I may be a little opinionated at times.

Yes I am an AD RN.

I also have a BS degree in Kinesiology

I am also obtaining a BS degree in Interpretation for A.S.L., you know what those interpreters get paid. wow.

keep it in the short grass ya'll

zenman · Mar 5, 2005

The reason I posted what I did is because you claimed to be able to tell who has what degree by watching them work and you equated the people who have problems to those with the "lower" degrees. But then you say that you think it's a shame that people are singled out by thier degree. You do send mixed messages. It's confusing.

Ok. However, it is probably safe to say that those who argue the most against the need for further education don't have it. That's all. But there are those who do recognize the benefit of it but who can't go any further for many reasons.

I called you a character because I don't know whether to take you seriously or not. The statement was not meant as a show of disrespect.

Thank you. Seriousness can be a laughing matter!

This is a problem in communicating on an internet message board. The body language, facial expressions, and inflections of voice cannot be seen or heard. Frequently something is taken out of context because these qualities in communication are missing.

True

I'm all for education. I'm all for a standardized entry into nursing. But that's not currently the way it is.

True and I don't expect to see much change in my lifetime.

begalli · Mar 5, 2005

Ok. However, it is probably safe to say that those who argue the most against the need for further education don't have it. That's all. But there are those who do recognize the benefit of it but who can't go any further for many reasons.

OR, some just don't feel it necessary to disclose or display a string of upper and lower case letters that can legally follow their name. To each their own.

Me personally? I proudly disclose and display RN.

:nurse: