Why do RN's with ASN and BSN make the same?

Nurses General Nursing

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In most other careers those with Bachelors make more then those with Associates, and I don't quite understand why it is different in nursing???? Can someone please clear this up, thanks :)

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Not just steps, ND's all BSN requirement blew up right in their face and is no longer.

Thank you for that update. I am behind the times.
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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.
Thank you for that update. I am behind the times.

Me too. I didn't know until a month ago that ND even attempted this. That it failed, while disappointing in some respects, is not surprising.

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Me too. I didn't know until a month ago that ND even attempted this. That it failed, while disappointing in some respects, is not surprising.

70 some percent of all RN's in the entire nation are ADN's, I can't remember how many of the remaining are diploma RN's but my point is- with such a small percentage of RN's being BSN prepared, how can you make this work?

Who is going to take care of all of these patients with LPN's, ADN's and diploma RN's out of the picture?

The only way I could see it work (not that I'm for it mind you) is to do it NY's way, grandfather the existing RN's and give those in school a 10 year timeline to complete a BSN program after their ADN program.

Even this plan I have my doubts about, are all of these nurses going to get their BSN on time simply because they are being threatened to have their licenses pulled if they don't?

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

70 some percent of all RN's in the entire nation are ADN's, I can't remember how many of the remaining are diploma RN's but my point is- with such a small percentage of RN's being BSN prepared, how can you make this work?

Who is going to take care of all of these patients with LPN's, ADN's and diploma RN's out of the picture?

The only way I could see it work (not that I'm for it mind you) is to do it NY's way, grandfather the existing RN's and give those in school a 10 year timeline to complete a BSN program after their ADN program.

Even this plan I have my doubts about, are all of these nurses going to get their BSN on time simply because they are being threatened to have their licenses pulled if they don't?

I'm not sure what ND was thinking and how they were going to accomplish it. I think however, it unfortunately is an example of nurses loosing power, as it was more hosiptal and politically driven rather than nurse driven to drop the BSN requirement. But don't quote me on that.

While ADN programs are the most popular way to become an RN, I think BSN programs might be growing as of late. I'm not sure of your figure of 70%, I thought it was a little less at maybe 50%.

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I'm not sure what ND was thinking and how they were going to accomplish it. I think however, it unfortunately is an example of nurses loosing power, as it was more hosiptal and politically driven rather than nurse driven to drop the BSN requirement. But don't quote me on that.

While ADN programs are the most popular way to become an RN, I think BSN programs might be growing as of late. I'm not sure of your figure of 70%, I thought it was a little less at maybe 50%.

I did some research and couldn't find exactly where I found my statistics so I went to the U.S. Dept of labor website, surprisingly proved to be of little help or maybe I just didn't know where to look.

Anyway, ANA's website provided this:

"The 2000 statistics showed that approximately 40 percent, or 1,087,602, RNs received their basic education in an associate's degree program. About 30 percent attended diploma programs, and an equal number attended baccalaureate programs."

"From 1995 to 2000, 55.4 percent of nurses obtaining their initial nursing education had graduated with their associate's degree. Thirty-eight percent had graduated from an accredited baccalaureate program. Only six percent had graduated from diploma programs."

I included both quotes because I was mistaken in that 70% in 2000 were ADN's when in fact it was a combination of ADN's and diploma RN's. That still leaves only 30% of the RN population to be BSN's BUT even this is not the complete picture because it also went on to discuss those ADN and diploma grads who got BSN's later.

I really couldn't find a straight answer on how many RN's TODAY are ADN or diploma vs. BSN.

The second quote I included because it may have been more of what you may have been referring to which I thought was the current number of people graduating from a particular type of program. I was referring to what number of RN's are in the workforce right now and what educational preparation they have.

Now it's bugging me that I can't find the info I was really looking for.

Anyone?

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I pulled out my textbook that states the distribution of graduates in 1999 were ADN's 52%, BSNs 44% and Diploma 4%. But that doesn't answer the question of the current makeup RNs out there in the workforce, but your figure may be closer to the truth. In 1992 BSN graduates were only 27% to 64% ADNs. This is probably where I get the idea that the percentage of BSNs is growing.

I'll keep looking.

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Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

Anyone?

I don't know how official this is but...

http://www.oaklandcc.edu/CareerFocus/Spring2003/S03_6.htm

I found this by entering 70% Associate degree nurse into Google.

btw, the date in the synopsis on google dated this 2003.

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

edited out. Sorry.

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Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

Here's more:

A recent report by the National Advisory Council on Nurse Education and Practice, an advisory body to the federal Division of Nursing, urged that at least two-thirds of the basic registered nurse workforce hold baccalaureate or higher degrees in nursing by 2010. Presently, only about 40 percent do.

http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Publications/positions/baccmin.htm

dated 12/12/00

Currently, 70% of RNs educated in California are educated at the associate degree level.

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:y3am3f0EbB8J:www.ucihs.uci.edu/cspcn/slots2001.pdf+70%25+Associate+degree+nurse&hl=en

dated March, 2000

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

According to this article. "According to current demographics approximately 60% of our country's Registered Nurses come from associate degree programs (National Council of State Board of Nursing 2001)."

http://www.nursevillage.com/nv/content/careerresources/student_nursing/created_equal.jsp

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Specializes in Critical Care/ICU.

Gosh you know I wasn't sure where to put this, but this is an interesting tidbit about the VA hospitals. I know that about 4 years ago the VA attempted to make it mandatory for all their new hires to hold BA's. They were going to pay for every nurse who didn't have the degree to eventually obtain the degree over a period of time. I'm not sure where it stands now. Were there, like it says in the first sentence of the last paragraph, problems and the idea was abandoned?

I think this has a date of 2003.

Retention and Recruitment of Registered Nurses- VA's Nurse Qualification Standards (the standards) define the performance and education requirements for a Registered Nurse (RN) to be appointed to and promoted to one of the five nurse grade levels in VA. Under these standards, all new hires must have a baccalaureate degree in nursing (BSN) to be appointed at the Nurse II grade level. RNs may be promoted to a Nurse II grade level without a BSN only with a waiver of the education requirements.

RNs must have educational preparation in nursing and meet state licensing requirements. However, fewer nurses nationwide are receiving a BSN as their educational preparation for nursing practice. Sixty-two percent of employed staff nurses received their nursing educational preparation through an associate degree in nursing (ADN) or diploma nursing program. According to the latest survey by the Department of Health and Human Services, Health Resources and Service Administration, 45 percent of RNs in nurse clinician positions and 42 percent of RNs in clinical nurse specialist positions have an ADN or diploma degree as their highest educational preparation for nursing. Further, nearly 40 percent of Certified Nurse Anesthetists do not have a BSN.

As discussed, all RNs, regardless of their educational preparation, must take rigorous licensing examinations administered by state governments. RNs prepared with an ADN have equivalent success rates in their licensing examinations as RNs who obtain a BSN. Whether RNs have a two-year or four-year nursing degree, they are licensed to perform the identical scope of nursing practice.

Notwithstanding their years of experience or expertise in nursing, VA will not hire RNs above the entry Nurse Level I unless they have a BSN; VA will not hire RNs above the Nurse Level II unless they have a master's degree, despite their years of bedside experience or clinical proficiency in nursing.

Currently, VA nurses are also evaluated for promotion based on the BSN and nine areas of competencies. The Nurse Professional Standards Board evaluates nurses and may recommend, subject to the concurrence of the Chief RN and approval of the medical center director, a waiver of the BSN requirement. If the medical center director denies a waiver, the RN has no recourse.

VA's focus on the level at which a RN received his or her educational preparation has created unintended consequences. Currently, the U.S. has an estimated nationwide shortage of RNs of around 6.5 percent. This shortage is projected to grow, and could reach 28.8 percent in 2020 if the current trend continues and no mitigating actions are taken. Given the national shortage and the reduced number of RNs who want to work in hospitals, the Committee believes that VA should focus on a RN's expertise and experience, not where he or she went to nursing school. The Committee bill would clarify that direct patient care performance is the primary criteria in hiring and promoting nurses.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&db_id=cp108&r_n=hr213.108&sel=TOC_9299&

Actually, now that I think about it, I think the VA was going to grandfather in the ADN and Diploma Nurses who didn't or couldn't get back to school for the Bachelors degree but they would only be able to go so far in staff level.

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Thanks for all of the quick late night responses.

I really appreciated seeing the U of Penn study as this is the one that I referred to that got a lot of criticism for it's slant:

  • At least 1,700 deaths could have been prevented in Pennsylvania hospitals alone if BSN prepared nurses had comprised 60 percent of the of the nursing staff and the nurse patient ratios had been set 4 to 1. "

  • When this study first surfaced, they left the second part out and only referred to the 60% of staff being BSN as a preventative measure in deaths. I have a feeling that the nurse/patient ratio had a little more to do with that.

    You could have an all BSN staff that graduated at the top of their class. It won't matter much if they are still taking 8+ patients with no PCT or clerk to help out.

    I think that we need to quit bickering over education and start focusing on demanding nurse/patient ratios that are safe, that will truely cut down on med errors and hospital deaths. Oooh, let's look for studies on that now.

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