Why do some Medstudents love to belittle nurses?

Trauma Columnist · Mar 30, 2011

Back to the topic - this was not an in-person conversation - it was on FaceBook.

So, back to LPNweezy - if in person, I would confront the person right then and there. However, at 19 I wasn't assertive enough to do so. Now that I'm ummm, lets just say old enough to be your grandmother, if I saw/heard this in person, I would take the person to task.

That said, FB is famous for trash-talking - ignore it, don't report it, you are the only one going to come out looking less respected.

In person is one thing, on the internet, something completely different.

Katie5 · Mar 30, 2011

To the topic - this was not an in-person conversation - it was on FaceBook.
Back to LPNweezy - if in person, I would confront the person right then and there. However, at 19 I wasn't assertive enough to do so. Now that I'm ummm, lets just say old enough to be your grandmother, if I saw/heard this in person, I would take the person to task.
That said, FB is famous for trash-talking - ignore it, don't report it, you are the only one going to come out looking less respected.
In person is one thing, on the internet, something completely different.

Thanks for the clarification:). It was facebook? Anybody can type anything online. The much harder one is saying it in person. Then one would need to take a stand.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Mar 30, 2011

respectfully, i didn't see any rude posts nor have i seen anyone call you a bad person. the reality is that many of us disagreed with your original position and gave our reasons for that. please consider that, possibly, projection may be coloring your perceptions of what we had to say.
we were treating you like an adult and a peer.

although, that post you were responding to, heron, made me wonder about the original "belittling" the op was complaining about. if she'd project upon us, she probably would upon a medical student as well.

msn10 · Mar 30, 2011

talaxandra

I wasn't calling you a bully, I was referring to the med students.

heron, ASN, RN · Mar 30, 2011

Not being rude, but can u explain why this would be a bad idea? I'm not going to report anything, i just would like to know for future reference. thank you.

Dear Heron,
I think you misunderstood my post. I did not tell her to report it, I told her to question the Center for Nurse Advocacy reps for sound advice. When in doubt, go to the experts. If LPNweezy chooses not to report it this time, she can at least get sound, researched, tested advice that comes from professionals (who have done a lot of good for nurses, aka Christina Agulera and Sketchers) so she can know what to say next time.

msn10, you are right. I misunderstood your post ... skimming too fast and thanks for clarifying.

LPNweezy, I have a couple of things that I think are wrong with pushing the issue.

For one thing, I think we have to choose our battles. It's a risk/benefit kind of thing: is the aggravation and possible fallout (for you) from going after an official reprimand worth it? What will you have accomplished, even if you do succeed in getting the reprimand, that you didn't already do when you confronted the med students online? It's like using an assault rifle to kill a fly. Moreover, you're unlikely to change their opinions, so it's a waste of your time, energy and possibly reputation.

Secondly, I think we have to wonder how far we're going to go in regulating other peoples' thinking ... it can get pretty intrusive and employers/schools/coworkers/supervisors are intrusive enough. Yes, fb is a public site and there is no expectation of privacy, but where is the line drawn? Do you want to be held responsible by your employer for everything that comes out of your mouth even on your own time? Too much like Big Brother for me.

Finally, I did misunderstand msn10's post and thought she/he was advising you to force the issue. I think it is a mistake to run to superiors with every slight, mistake or faux pas that might occur. It's bad for your reputation both with coworkers and with superiors. Such a pattern also tends to devalue what you have to say. "Oh, it's just heron again going on about ... blah, blah, blah!" Such behavior also tends to foster the kind of cutthroat atmosphere that we complain about so much, which is why I consider it dangerous to do unnecessarily.

I'm not expressing myself very well today ... hope that makes it a tad bit clearer.

mike109810 · Mar 30, 2011

Hey all,

I have been a long time lurker here; in fact, I started reading these forums because my cousin was interested in joining the nursing profession, and had asked if I could help her do some research on the pathways in becoming a nurse.

That being said, I felt compelled to respond to this thread. I am a fourth year medical student in NYC, and I have to say that I am almost shocked to read the first post in this thread. I can honestly say that as a medical student, I have the UTMOST respect and ADMIRATION for the nurses that I have worked with at the hospitals. Almost 100% of the nurses were kind enough to take the time out of their schedules to help teach us countless clinical pearls and techniques, and as medical students, we learned quickly that the nurses would help guide us if we ever needed assistance. I know that ALL of my fellow students were very respectful of the nurses, and that there was a certain closeness we felt to the nurses when we left each rotation.

I find it VERY hard to believe that any medical student would openly (or even in their own mind) belittle nurses in the fashion stated by the original poster of this thread. Either these medical students were not truly medical students, or they were pre-clinical students (who have very little idea of what clinical medicine entails), or they were just being morons. Regardless, it is best to ignore these comments of hatred, and on the same thread, it would be pointless to stoop to their level and report them to the Dean. Moreso, the Dean (judging from my school's Dean) has countless other things to do on a day-to-day basis, and reprimanding students for these kind of things would fall low on his schedule.

I want to thank the nurses I precepted with for having a soft spot for us newbies, and I certainly know these positive experiences will definitely lead me to have the utmost respect for nurses for the rest of my academic/professional careers.

:)

canesdukegirl, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2011

Hey all,
I have been a long time lurker here; in fact, I started reading these forums because my cousin was interested in joining the nursing profession, and had asked if I could help her do some research on the pathways in becoming a nurse.
That being said, I felt compelled to respond to this thread. I am a fourth year medical student in NYC, and I have to say that I am almost shocked to read the first post in this thread. I can honestly say that as a medical student, I have the UTMOST respect and ADMIRATION for the nurses that I have worked with at the hospitals. Almost 100% of the nurses were kind enough to take the time out of their schedules to help teach us countless clinical pearls and techniques, and as medical students, we learned quickly that the nurses would help guide us if we ever needed assistance. I know that ALL of my fellow students were very respectful of the nurses, and that there was a certain closeness we felt to the nurses when we left each rotation.
I find it VERY hard to believe that any medical student would openly (or even in their own mind) belittle nurses in the fashion stated by the original poster of this thread. Either these medical students were not truly medical students, or they were pre-clinical students (who have very little idea of what clinical medicine entails), or they were just being morons. Regardless, it is best to ignore these comments of hatred, and on the same thread, it would be pointless to stoop to their level and report them to the Dean. Moreso, the Dean (judging from my school's Dean) has countless other things to do on a day-to-day basis, and reprimanding students for these kind of things would fall low on his schedule.
I want to thank the nurses I precepted with for having a soft spot for us newbies, and I certainly know these positive experiences will definitely lead me to have the utmost respect for nurses for the rest of my academic/professional careers.
:)

Thank you for expressing your sentiments. My brother will be starting med school in the fall, and I am hopeful that he will take the same opinion as you hold of nurses, and realize that there is value in learning from the nurses who can guide you.

As I have stated previously, I have had a few med students in my OR who have "poo-pooed" my suggestions. For example, I warned one student out in the scrub bay that the surgeon would be expecting him to fully participate in the surgery, and that he should expect to hold retractors without the surgeon having to ask, and for him to suction when appropriate in order to truly assist with the surgery. His response was, "Oh, yeah. You are my professor now, huh? You think I haven't already thought of these things?" Apparently he hadn't, because the surgeon completely lit him up when he was not focused on the surgery and did not anticipate the needs of the attending during surgery. The surgeon got fed up with his inability to focus and told him that he was about as useful as a piece of furniture and made him drop scrub.

This is rare. Most of the students are eager to learn. Most are a bit hesitant to jump in because they don't want to do something wrong and then look like idiots. I can imagine how these students must feel, because they are under the microscope and want to ensure that they are doing things the right way. They are being judged by not only the attending, but also by the resident. It must be very stressful for them. I believe it is not only prudent to give them a "heads up" when working with a particularly difficult surgeon, but it is also my duty to the pt in regards to safety that the student understands these expectations.

I will continue to go out of my way to make med students feel comfortable in an unfamiliar environment. Nobody is comfortable in a new environment, and I also realize that sometimes the sheer anxiety of being scrubbed in will overload their brains, leading them to make careless mistakes. If I can somehow decrease the static of anxiety, then I know that the student will be more focused on the surgery and thus be better prepared for engaging in and remembering the important points in the surgery.

talaxandra · Mar 30, 2011

talaxandra
I wasn't calling you a bully, I was referring to the med students.

I'm sorry I misinterpreted your post and have edited my response accordingly.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Mar 30, 2011

I have been belittled by medstudents numerous times. the whole "You don't know as much" or "You didn't go to school as long as a doc" always comes up. what is is that they have to prove to me? why do they do this?
Where is the respect???
This is a direct quote i received from a medical student
"Ha! Most of you ***s are just registered nurses... which is what most people who can't aspire to anything greater or just can't handle medical school... I may be a student now and you might think high and mighty because youre registered... but one day i'll probably be your boss... so suck it..."
how do i deal with this? i just ignore it, but it sooo unprofessional
I am not in any way talking badly about medical students, i am just wondering if any of you have had this kind of behavior happen, over heard it, etc. and how i should handle this. please no rude responses.

Don't have time to read the whole thread and will do so later. .... In what context did this come up? Is this someone you know personally or was this said on the job? I never heard of this occuring. I work in a teaching hospital and yes there have been these types of "them vs us" between drs and nurses but a medical student was NEVER involved. The nursing staff doesn't really interact with medical students (i am on a med-surg floor).

anotherone, BSN, RN · Mar 31, 2011

Well I wouldn't be derailing their academic career, they would. they would have gotten themselves in trouble with their behavior. Would it really be better if i ignored behavior like this when i run into it? I'm very conflicted between doing the right thing, and playing it safe.

The right thing by whose standards. It is all subjective. I would have ignored it and not gotten daddy or mommy dean invovled. Who may or may not care. If the dean cares this can get very ugly really fast and you will be dragged down as well.

LPNweezy · Mar 31, 2011

The right thing by whose standards. It is all subjective. I would have ignored it and not gotten daddy or mommy dean invovled. Who may or may not care. If the dean cares this can get very ugly really fast and you will be dragged down as well.

I just don't understand how on earth i could be dragged down too as some of the other posts have been saying? can someone please clarify? How could i get in trouble for reporting behavior? All answers appreciated

Also, in this situation, i am going to just ignore them- but this is for future reference.

anotherone, BSN, RN · Mar 31, 2011

I just don't understand how on earth i could be dragged down too as some of the other posts have been saying? can someone please clarify? How could i get in trouble for reporting behavior? All answers appreciated
Also, in this situation, i am going to just ignore them- but this is for future reference.

Someone awhile back mentioned a scenario where if the students were punished for this they could pursue some type of legal action for having thier "Career ruined " etc. Even if it were against the school you would become involved and dragged into it. I don't think this is worth reporting. . How long have you worked in nursing? I am pretty sure most patients think we are med school drop outs or not smart enough to be doctors and that is why we are in nursing..