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msn10

msn10

cardiac, ICU, education
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  1. msn10

    Should the title "CRNA" be rebranded?

    Simply because MD's (all of them) go to medical school and CRNA's go to nursing school, not just for their undergrad, but the CRNA graduate education is done in a nursing college. The title anesthesiologist is the name given to a medical doctor just like cardiologist or neurologist. Every graduate of a nursing school has a nursing title. You would have to go to a different school to get a different title, like wtbcrna said - AA
  2. msn10

    DNP Fluff

    The entire point of a DNP is to translate the research, not actually do the research. Some DNP's do, in fact, lead research projects, but the degree was meant to have a deeper understanding of research so the correct evidence can be used in the correct situation. PhD's don't often work in hospitals in a clinical position, so comparing a PhD and a DNP (which is done at nauseam) is not really helpful. A great position for a DNP in a hospital is leading a nursing practice council or EBP and QI council. They should have the expertise to understand how policies should be created, who they will affect, and if the policy change is warranted. A DNP will be using that knowledge even if it is "just a desk job" because they are treating patients and that knowledge should be used no matter what their career path.
  3. msn10

    DNP Fluff

    I am not a huge fan of theory, but Nightingale was really a rock star. Just wasn't her theories, she was a master statistician and mathematician and she worked her tail off at Crimea. Some of the other ones are not worth their weight in water.
  4. Bedside nurses have gone through quite a bit of training in many places as preceptors. My job before this one was creating preceptor workshops and nurse residency courses and I trained nurses all over the country. It was fantastic. There will be a NP preceptor course created probably in the next year as grant funding is coming through. The CCNE has accredited many BSN programs, I think the NP one will follow the same teaching methods which is all based on adult learning principles. You are right, however, having a trained preceptor makes a big difference.
  5. NP schools are a lot more than you are giving them credit for. There are variances in school quality, but your sweeping statements are factless. I have seen a lot more physicians in favor of NP's than the opposite and if NP's were killing people at alarming rates, we would hear about it. It makes me nervous when I read posts from medical students who have such disrespect for a discipline they will have to work so closely with. If you like medicine better, great, go like medicine, but many physicians also really like working with NP's and value their input and expertise.
  6. Because my work and research in conflict management tells me otherwise. Are there people that do both? Sure. However, many people who do not like to speak up at work do so on these threads. If students get together and really start to demand a "better product" people in licensing boards do listen. I have witnessed it first hand. I COMPLETELY changed a class I had, and by extension, we absolutely transformed our undergraduate program to include one more nursing course and take out an elective to give students another clinical and then added 2 more electives for nurses that they were asking for and put new threads throughout the entire curriculum, added more experiential learning, provided a week-long boot camp for NCLEX (not including all the other preps we have for it) and have brought in some unbelievable new professors. I know I am in a bit of a Utopia, we have 125+ nursing students per grade and we get approx. 2000 applicants per year. I know things can change, but when people only complain on forums, it doesn't' help. I just wonder how many students go to AANP conferences or write letters to them (as a collective group which carries more weight) to demand higher standards? They do listen, but they have to hear from the right people.
  7. I was just having a discussion today about the NP curriculum. This thread had me interested in asking. The NP's that I work and teach with said they would favor another pharm, but more of a pharm class that had to do specifically with interactions with other drugs and an element of genomics which will become very big very fast as we have already witnessed point of care decision making, EHR's and genomics explode in the last 3-5 years with programs like SMART. What I don't want to get away from completely is the nursing model. Partnering with physician groups and pharmacists is great, but remember, they see it from a very medical point of view. Them "overseeing us" would be a nightmare. What did come up in our discussion today (and remember these are college professors who still work as NP's because we have to and want to) is the fact that when we have a PA vs NP shadow us in the clinic or watch us at the bedside, the focus is different. Very often you will see the nurse understand the nuances with patients - patient is saying one thing, but there is an underlying issue that is a bigger problem. PA's don't seem to have the same 6th sense with regards to holistic perspective, and that is okay, they are trained differently. With regards to Jules and Dodongo, it sounds as if you may like the medical model better and that's okay. Dodongo you still have time to switch to a PA if you want to. I think all 3 programs PA/NP/MD need to reevaluate every year and make changes to their programs. There are some pretty crappy programs in all three fields. Remember, there are many physicians who go to medical in other countries. Some of those programs scare me to death. I am fine with the amount of schooling I have because my ICU and cardiac experience in nursing was very intense and I worked at a Level I center which is obviously a teaching facility and the staff MD's and RN's did a great job "training" us as well. I don't know that another pharm would have helped. But when you get out of school, just like after your BSN, you continue to find learning opportunities in your area.
  8. I don't want to speak for FNP, but from my point of view, I will talk about my experience in both academia and in practice. There are a number of people on Allnurses in general who use their own lived experience and use that to make broad general statements about nursing practice or education, and instead of coming up with pro-active solutions, they just complain. Many of us who have pursued any education beyond a BSN are happy that we did and understand the value of our education. When someone says "I simply feel that there is not a single NP program out there that adequately prepares students with their minimum requirements" I have to question their perspective. Has this person really looked into and knows the outcomes of every NP program? I don't even know that information and I teach graduate students.
  9. msn10

    DNP Fluff

    There are nursing programs that learn right along physicians as well, but neither is the same. CIM Good Doctors and Nurses - Johns Hopkins Center for Innovative Medicine Again, you are giving a lot of opinions, and I don't know if you are a med student or PA, but unless you are doing any program NP/PA/MD you don't have the background to make all these claims. You are so worried about amount of time in school, yet are you looking at the outcome of both? Is there any difference? Pretty much every study says no difference in outcomes.
  10. msn10

    DNP Fluff

    I totally agree with you there. Nobody, Imho, should be allowed into an NP without experience, but PA's graduate without experience too. Be careful what you wish for. We can change internally, the AMA is not all it is cracked up to be either. My husband is a physician, I watched him go through medical school and residency. It is amazing how many times the residents are left alone and a lot of the learning happens by themselves. I think nursing is making strides everyday, but I am one of the people who is trying to make it better. You sound like you care a great deal about nursing education, which is great. But I say this very respectfully, complaining about it on this thread or any other won't change anything. I teach .5 and work directing a program .5 and every single one of my clinical instructors are NP's. We pay the hospital to give them a day off to teach on the floor. It is amazing, the NP's who are familiar with the hospital or clinic, who also have great expertise in clinical practice are giving back. This is where the real learning begins. If you want to make a change, offer your services (paid, of course) to a university and teach! You can also offer your expertise to the AANP or ANCC. Get a group of NP's together to ask for tougher standards, they listen to NP's very often in online or open forums. With all the passion you have, it would be wonderful to put it to good use.
  11. msn10

    I WOULD NOT recommend Brookdale

    Get over myself? I have a responsibility to make sure my students don't kill anyone. You are missing the point. It is not about credit, it is about understanding simple algebra which I am sure you learned even if it was 20 years ago. It is not my responsibility to teach it to you again. You learned how to read in school, but I am not about to teach you how to do that if you don't remember either. Starting college, you should have a basic set of skills. I am not at all trying to sound snarky, but in the last few years that I have been teaching Foundations, not one student thought the testing was out of line. They didn't love the 'no calculator' rule, but since I worked in an ER and ICU, I know you must be able to do math in your head. The majority of schools I know do this. There is a lot of math in nursing, but we can't possibly test you on everything you need to know. As an adult learner, you will need to learn things on your own. Besides, if you are not passing the test, then why would you want credit for it?
  12. msn10

    I WOULD NOT recommend Brookdale

    I require my students to do this "without credit" and without a calculator. If they cannot do simple algebra, then they should not be in the nursing program. I have 2 children in college, I hope for their sake they are not emailing their professors the way you did.
  13. msn10

    DNP Fluff

    If that is your main source of research, then that is a significant problem. And this thread is about DNP's, all of which have extensive education in research. Unlike a PhD they do not carry out a dissertation, but they take many of the same classes which include translational research, advanced stats, etc., and understand the IRB process. DNP's lead year-long projects. I know what research option our PA's have available to them, and if they choose to do research, they have to have a PI lead the project. You must not have read the following posts: https://allnurses.com/doctor-nursing-practice/dnp-students-projects-1076180.html https://allnurses.com/research-nursing/are-any-of-934361.html https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/need-help-with-376492.html I didn't say we grant graduate level credit, I am saying that the knowledge they gain in undergraduate is becomes part of the graduate experience. If an RN took pharm in his or her undergrad, which they all do, then they go onto advanced pharm classes later on. Not sure how that is getting lost in translation. Every program requires prerequisites, just the like PA program does. Please don't put PA's on the same level as MD's - no comparison. In order to prescribe effectively, you need to have a great deal of knowledge and hopefully experience with medications. A new NP with RN experience runs circles around a new PA. Years of administering and looking up medications in the RN role is very valuable when understanding how to prescribe. I can see how an NP getting prescribing authority would be concerning for some as an NP can be an independent practitioner as a PA still needs supervision so they have that to fall back on. In fact, happened to my mom, the PA in the ER prescribed the wrong medication and the doctor reviewed the chart called 3 hours later to change it. A research class is very different from a capstone project, especially the one-semster, one-credit capstone project. Look, I get it, you don't like NP programs, but then don't be an NP. My university has so many health oriented programs, probably the most in the nation, and our CRNA program is affiliated with the medical college. We all work together and have a lot of classes together. Even many of the PA's will tell me that they wished they had some of the hospital experience the NP's have because experience means so much more than anyone on this thread is considering. I am fine with my education, but like any other nursing professor who sits on the curriculum committee, I constantly strive to do make the programs I teach in better for everyone. All I see you doing is taking the biggest problems in the NP programs and comparing them to the highest accolades in the PA program. I work very well with PA's except for the arrogant ones who think they are independent practitioners and are better than the NP's.
  14. Do you have a preceptor program for NPs? I know they are starting a couple in community and rural areas.
  15. msn10

    Who says nurses can't be scholars?

    Again, biochem and physiology is given in undergrad but has no bearing on scholarly work. You have made it sound on more than one thread that you have quite the disdain for nursing education, but since you are not a nurse, I am not sure where you are getting your information from. A few people's lived experience is different than a profession that has proven outcomes.
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