Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[TitaniumPlates]

Ha. Nice try.

If your are interested, research the union hospitals, compare their benefits and the cost of living.

You are anti union. Of what benefit is union protection and high pay to you?

For example.

One hospital I worked for has across the board raises, high shift differentials, monetary rewards for all certs, equal dollar for dollar retirement, crazy time off, and guaranteed pto separated from sick, ratio in the er of 4:1.

Another union shop offered me $88/hr plus $25 shift diff for weekends, hour lunches uninterrupted, no denial of pto or sick, ratio in er of 4:1.

As an example of my rent each place. I rented a house both times. Very nice neighborhoods, 1100-1400 sq ft. Garage. Close enough to work but far enough to have a nice yard.

I paid premium because I was short term. My rent was $1400/mo for one and $1550 for the other. Had I stayed in either as a fulltime perm employee...My rent would have hone down.

I also did not make as much at one as staff does. My take home was $2400/week while staff easily made $20-30 more an hour than I did...And we both paid the same state taxes, etc.

Even when I worked Rhode Island hospital...My pay was $15-20 higher than when I worked in a non union shop in the same area. Same cost of living.

Thus is a great way for you to educate yourself on what unions actually can do. The rewards also are not solely monetary.

The fact that I can take my pto without a problem, the fact that if I have a manager who is a terror I can file a grievance and have my concerns heard and possibly acted on, the fact that if I am unfortunate enough to get one of these horrific nurse managers who use overtime to plug holes for them I can turn to the union contract and say...Oh no you don't.

I have said this a hundred times if I have said it once.

Unions would not exist if they were not necessary. And the only ones afraid of having a union in place are administration and those that admin rewards for being union busters.

Been there. Worked in mid North Carolina. Saw how those hospitals abused the staff horrendously and if you mentioned union...You were fired and blackballed.

If unions are so horrific then why are they not banned? Just answer me this. Why, if employers always do right by employees, do employees ever jump ship? Why if employers do the right thing by their employees, don't they standardize benefits across the board so that we can focus on patient care?

Do your research, tacticool. And I am most absolutely sincere when I beg you anti unionists to stay away from my hospital. The last thing we would want is for someone like you to talk out of both sides of your mouth...Taking benefits while slamming the very union that enabled you to have them.

By the way. I live right now in a small town where traffic is light, the beach is 2 hours away, the mountains 2 hours away, taxes are reasonable, free parking at work, I have been off for 2 weeks on vacation that wasn't even debated or haggled or I had to trade/find coverage...Because I earn 8 hrs per pay period of pto alone. I earn 6 hours of sick per pay. My rent for a 1500 sq ft townhouse is $1200/mo and it takes me 20 minutes to work. My shift diff and base pay grossed me $115k without overtime. And I sit down to an uninterrupted lunch every shift.

And I have ceiling lifts!!!??

[Rionoir, ADN, RN]

Wow some people are really threatened by non union places that have benefits ? The personal attacks from trying to have a discussion on this topic are yet another reason for the OP to consider...

[jinct]

12 minutes ago, Rionoir said:

Wow some people are really threatened by non union places that have benefits ? The personal attacks from trying to have a discussion on this topic are yet another reason for the OP to consider...

Usually coercion and intimidation go hand in hand with unions

[Guest957596]

Dude, I wouldn't come to your Shangrila Hotel, er, hospital. You don't mention the location, by the way. And if I were to come to Nursing Utopia, I wouldn't be in the union. I have my principles and I'm not a hypocrite.

[suzil]

On 8/5/2019 at 1:09 PM, jinct said:

I definitely envy your $20/hr night weekend differential. My union contract provides the same diff that the hospital provides all employees, but it's only 7.50 for nights plus 4 for weekends. Other than that, not much else to say. I am union. Our ratios stink. Rarely get breaks. Mixed sick and pto time. Unresponsive to the issues. But never miss taking the dues out of my paycheck...

Like I said, all unions are different, I suppose. But there's a reason that union membership is on a steep decline.

I wish I had the choice to go union. I live in a Right to Work state. They only unions happen to be those that work in grocery stores, larger chain and some of the specialty trades. Every hospital in the state FIGHT against unions. In fact the reason you see less unions? Because we are turning into a country where politics is pushing the Right to Work nonsense! You basically have no rights. Sure some are on the books. But talk to any lawyer in my state. It is one long hard battle to win against the hospitals here.

If that were my union? I would be vocal at the meetings. We try to be vocal at our hospital Town Halls here? We actually get escorted out by security!

[suzil]

6 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Dude, I wouldn't come to your Shangrila Hotel, er, hospital. You don't mention the location, by the way. And if I were to come to Nursing Utopia, I wouldn't be in the union. I have my principles and I'm not a hypocrite.

11 minutes ago, jinct said:

Usually coercion and intimidation go hand in hand with unions

I have credible decades years of experiences in critical care areas. Many different hospitals. I have worked out of my state in union hospitals. Absolutely NO comparison!

[painmeds]

The union at my facility seem to protect/benefit the seniors only. As a new EXPERIENCED nurse, I get screwed on my schedule, assignments, and call-off rotation.

[guest974915]

57 minutes ago, suzil said:

I have credible decades years of experiences in critical care areas. Many different hospitals. I have worked out of my state in union hospitals. Absolutely NO comparison!

I too have been all over the country and worked as a nurse in just about every type of hospital there is; Level I, II, II, 'for profit', 'not for profit', university based, community, urban, rural... The one common denominator of them all is that they are all (to varying degrees) about making money. Profitable businesses don't typically give anything to employees without an expectation (expressed or implied). This is what Titanium is saying, if Hospital X offers its employees outstanding benefits; 1.) It is because of local competition and market demands or, 2.) A union has negotiated these perks. If hospital administrators can take from their employees to get more for themselves, senior management, and possibly their, shareholders, then trust me, they will! Google your hospital system's CEO's salary for a real eye opener. But believe and do whatever it is you want, run with scissors, don't wear your seat belt....Again, my hope for you is that as a nurse, if you don't yet feel the sting from corporate greed, you somehow manage to hold on to them the next time your hospital operates a year in the red.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

As a mostly retired person, my DH and I enjoy outstanding medical benefits because of his union. All through his career he complained about the union doing nothing but now our medical life is more secure, if we should ever need it. Something to consider when you review your contract with your employer. And I add again that this was a professional union of his peers. No, I don't think Teamsters can represent nurses. And people within unions have their own disagreements. That's just life.

[kcochrane]

Although I'm not against unions, I have not found them to be beneficial in my area. The county nursing home belongs to the county union and the pay for RNs was dismal. At least $8-10/hour less than any other nursing home. $22/hr for staff nurse, $25.75/hr for supervisors. I loved working there but it just wasn't financially feasible. The only plus I found was that you have some protection from being fired without fair representation.

My current facility pays well, good benefits and the vice president must review all terminations to make sure they were fair. The union here is only for CNAs and LPNs.

[mene19]

At my former job, my union rep and I did not see eye to eye on many things. We had intelligent discussions and grew to respect each other immensely, even when we clashed in frustration.

Examples of why I don't like unions for nurses:

1. Unions defend rules against pragmatics. Immediately after hurricane Sandy, I was assigned to help open an additional telemetry unit for the influx of patients needing monitoring. The hospital space and staff were stretched to the max. While transporting a patient from the ER to the new unit, the union rep tried to stop me; apparently it was not in my job description to push a bed. "It sets a precedent," she said. "It's about the patient, and It's an emergency situation." I replied, and continued until all 8 patients were transferred.

2. They protect dangerous workers, no matter how they deny/justify. Long term nurses who could no longer safely function in their position kept their places because of the union, even when these nurses were incompetent, physically unable to perform the work, or both. If a nurse has difficulty getting up from a chair, they don't belong in the ICU.

3. Unions have devolved into gangs: mandating who members vote for, bullying, intimidating. In the early 90's, 1199 went on strike in Philadelphia. At the Hospital of the Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (no longer open), union workers physically assaulted Dr.'s, vandalized lab equipment, and prevented loved ones from seeing their families. Unions forget they have a right to PEACEFULLY assemble. This does not mean blocking streets, denying others access to public places, and committing crimes.

I'll never forget what I saw in Philadelphia and will never support a union again.

[HazelLPN, LPN]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 10:40 AM, tacticool said:

Lengthy response. But I'll keep it short. Unions are NOT doing a good job as private-sector union participation is at/under 6% compared to government-sector at/above 35%. A plurality of states have Right-To-Work laws, so unions can't stop terminations. As for pay, yes there are numerous factors affecting compensation as you mention. But the go-getter, hard-charger, should be able to negotiate wages on their own, or move on.

Absolute nonsense.