Why are so many nurses against unions?

Nurses Union

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I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

Specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.
Just now, Wuzzie said:

Not that I have to answer to you but I have been a nurse for 31 years (NICU,PICU,ED,Flight,Oncology) which my posting history will support should you bother to read anything I've written. I am also a paramedic. You?

Yep, as it says on my posts. actually, it's this:

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN

1 Votes
Specializes in ED.
On 7/31/2019 at 3:28 PM, tacticool said:

And by the way, are there non-nurses on here? It looks like Rionir and Wuzzie don't have the nurse icon next to their names.

Again, twisting the sentiment.

Read and comprehend what I did actually say.

I said...if you have no experience as a nurse or baseline as a nurse. You cannot answer the question as to WHY SOME NURSES DONT LIKE UNIONS.

He can post all he wants about a subject for which is he qualified...and get respectful debate. But he is coming here with no street cred and attempting to do the politician tap dance.

3 Votes
5 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Yep, as it says on my posts. actually, it's this:

BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN

Then you should have been able to figure out by my posts that I actually am, in fact, a nurse.

2 Votes
Specializes in ED.
5 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Dude! I wasn't twisting your words- I was agreeing with you! Put on your thinking cap, dude.

Re read the edited version.

You are standing there NOT agreeing with me...and using the fact that I negotiated without a union as an anti union argument.

It's not valid. Unions protect those that can't protect themselves. I can. I have all the leverage i need to show an employer they can't push me around. What does a new grad have?

I am NOT against unions and i resent you using my experience to argue that they are unnecessary.

That is disingenuous and insulting. Especially to all of those workers now and it the past who have fought for workplace rights. Businesses do NOT do the right thing if they are not forced to do so.

The EPA, FDIC, FDA and other protective services would never have existed if businesses did the right frakking thing.

3 Votes
Specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.
2 minutes ago, Wuzzie said:

Then you should have been able to figure out by my posts that I actually am, in fact, a nurse.

Wasn't sure as allnurses.com usually put's the nurse cap emoji next to your name. Nothing but asking a question.

1 Votes
3 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Wasn't sure as allnurses.com usually put's the nurse cap emoji next to your name. Nothing but asking a question.

You might have asked a question but you worded it as an accusation especially by lumping me in with someone who has not actually graduated yet. I don't recall calling you out specifically for anything you've said and I don't appreciate you doing it to me. A little research on your part before you made an allegation would have been the correct thing to do.

And just so you know. You don't have one either.

1 Votes
Specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.
1 minute ago, TitaniumPlates said:

Re read the edited version.

You are standing there NOT agreeing with me...and using the fact that I negotiated without a union as an anti union argument - All I said was you didn't need a union. Didn't say anything about being anti-union.

It's not valid. Unions protect those that can't protect themselves. I can. I have all the leverage i need to show an employer they can't push me around. What does a new grad have?- Don't know about what a new grad has. Perhaps they have life skills to negotiate.

I am NOT against unions and i resent you using my experience to argue that they are unnecessary.- Never said that, never implied that. You made an erroneous assumption. And assumption is the mother of all f*ckups.

That is disingenuous and insulting. Especially to all of those workers now and it the past who have fought for workplace rights. Businesses do NOT do the right thing if they are not forced to do so.

The EPA, FDIC, FDA and other protective services would never have existed if businesses did the right frakking thing- These outfits would never exist if the Constitution, Article I, Section VIII was followed!

Dude, you are the cat's meow! Replied back in your text.

1 Votes
Specializes in ED.
12 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Dude, you are the cat's meow! Replied back in your text.

Ahhh. Your last bolded tells me more about you and how you formed your opinion on this subject.

Unfortunately there is how things Should Be....and then there is How Things Are.

You can fall into one of those camps. If you realize that even if I make a rule....like nurse to patient ratios...the hospitals WILL work overtime to skirt those laws in some other area...say...like fudging ESI....then you are a realist and will be much more apt to be able to see situations for how they are, and ergo, plan from actual factual information. Do I want to work in California bc of nurse ratios even though every hospital will give me 4 ESI 1s that are fudges to be 4 ESI 3s? Make your choice. But it's based on facts. Not dreamland on how things SHOULD BE.

I dont work for "potential". I dont work for promised changes. I dont work for anything but black and white, no ability of you or me to cleverly use a backdoor parsing of verbiage contracts. Put up or shut up.

New grads dont have that. Some others...like older nurses who have their ADN and were damned good enough for 20 years to work charge nurse in the NICU are suddenly out on the street because admin can threaten them with mid stream rule changes.

The only way I got that done was taking a lot of crap and then when I had the leverage through experience, education, certs and skill....I could shove what is REAL into the mix. Not what some employer advertised as reality or some promise of a brighter future made by some politician.

I like living in what IS. Not what SHOULD BE.

Unions level the playing field. I gives the little guy...the floor sweeper, the coal miner, the nurse, the police officer, the farm hand....a way to make sure that the employer is Telling The Truth or Else.

2 Votes
2 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Wasn't sure as allnurses.com usually put's the nurse cap emoji next to your name. Nothing but asking a question.

Asking questions is fine but for some reason, you seem compelled to educate us all regarding labor law. Personally, (I and most others here), don’t need it and you’re only repeating facts that we are already aware of. I have always acknowledged that grieving or suing a former employer in any state, for any reason, is near impossible. However, without union representation, it’s just you alone with little recourse!

2 Votes
Specializes in RETIRED Cath Lab/Cardiology/Radiology.

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1 Votes
Specializes in Mental Health.
On 7/31/2019 at 3:17 PM, TitaniumPlates said:

And seriously folks. It is so crystal clear to me that the ones touting the plethora of "legal avenues" available are relying on one word...

"Available". They exist. Yes. They do.

And this is a politicians wet dream in their way of doublespeak.

I will make tuition reimbursement available to all employees. But I will then put so many obstacles to actually collecting those benefits in front of you...that you give up In frustration and pay for it yourself.

I will give you a 10k sign on bonus. But I will divide it into 45 paychecks and tax them all.

I will give you a merit raise every year. But in the fine print I will make hoops like "you must write a proficiency directed at the 9 dimensions of our version of what a nurse should be including ethics. And we make sure there is no way you can prove how ethical you are...therefore....no raise."

Dont bulls#it a very experienced nurse and second careerist dude. Just dont. Child of a frakking Teamster to boot. Just dont even try.

It's clear that you have a goal in mind. Which is to disrupt the conversation with half truths. Parsing words like "negotiating".

Yes. When you sit and talk to a recruiter about getting more, and they have a range...that could be construed as negotiating. The spirit of what this term means here is that you negotiate for something that no one without your experience and skill could get. Over and above. A bonus.

Not within a range.

I recently applied for and snagged a great job. Based on my education and experience, I was slotted into a particular pay rate.

I didnt like it.

I wrote a detailed report, based on the requirements of the job I was applying for, spoke to those skills and touted my education, experience and skill in those direct areas. I also spoke to the level ABOVE me, something that my supervisor would be responsible for doing....and touted the skills, education and experiences I have doing the job of someone ABOVE ME.

The offer was sent back to me and my starting pay jumped $20k per year.

I was told originally that based on my education, work history and certs....THE RANGE of my salary was a particular sum.

The TOP of that RANGE is 9k LESS than I accepted.

THAT, my friend is NEGOTIATING.

You basically just argued against unions though lol

1 Votes
Specializes in ED.
On 8/1/2019 at 6:29 AM, Rionoir said:

You basically just argued against unions though lol

No, I didnt . Lol

I argued that I, with crap tons of experience, skill, credentials and education can negotiate successfully. Sometimes.

Noobs....Like you are hoping to be...Have nothing. And even though I think you may do well to experience 15 years of a crappy boss, bully coworkers, being let go for no reason and having your assignments so overburderened with no recourse....Even you would deserve some protection that a union shop offers.

But you know everything about the working conditions for nurses because you have been one for so very long. I think you absolutely should never, ever work in a high paying, hour lunch guaranteed, guaranteed vacation time, guaranteed breaks, guaranteed ratio hospital.

Because unions are evil.

Lol.

2 Votes
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