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Why are so many nurses against unions?

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by Icunicenurse Icunicenurse (New) New

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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16 hours ago, morelostthanfound said:

Disagree^^^ Even if you were wrongfully terminated or your civil rights were violated, securing an attorney and bringing suit in the courts is not an easy matter. Most hospital systems are a part of a large conglomerate with deep pockets and a team of legal counsel at the ready. Through legal wrangling, they, but doubtfully not you, can afford to drag out the proceedings for years. Justice does not always prevail and often, in the end, it's whoever has the most money and power.

Two errors:

1. One the EEOC will review your complaint. If they find evidence of a violation, and you are a protected class, they will issue a Letter of Certification. Then you can proceed.

2. As for wrongful termination, it is next to impossible to sue for, and win, a wrongful termination lawsuit in Right-To-Work states. in a RTW state, you can leave at anytime for any or nor reason and your employer can terminate you at anytime for any or no reason. Check out www.justia.com

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13 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Two errors:

1. One the EEOC will review your complaint. If they find evidence of a violation, and you are a protected class, they will issue a Letter of Certification. Then you can proceed.

2. As for wrongful termination, it is next to impossible to sue for, and win, a wrongful termination lawsuit in Right-To-Work states. in a RTW state, you can leave at anytime for any or nor reason and your employer can terminate you at anytime for any or no reason. Check out www.justia.com

You are missing a key element; time. There are more to consider when filing a legal claim than simply the staggering legal cost. Time out of work is a huge factor as well for the lawsuit could take months or even years. Few employers in their right mind would hire someone in the midst of a legal battle such as that so once you were terminated you have to sit there unemployed waiting for the legal battle to resolve. On any employment application you have to list convictions and ongoing legal issues so they will see that issue and avoid you like the plague because they know you will have to be gone often and sometimes without warning. Not everyone has the resources to pursue such action, as many here have said. Even IF they can secure 'free' or 'low cost' counsel the hospital can afford to drain you of your savings by playing legal games in order for you to drop the case or settle for a pittance as you probably won't have a job. Your previous year's W2 income is also likely too high to qualify for food stamps or welfare so a small unemployment check would be all you could hope for and that doesn't last long nor is it a large amount in most states. So you would rely on whatever savings you may have and most Americans don't have much savings. Your second point simply adds to what many have been saying here the whole time, that is a huge boon for union protection; you are far less at risk of sudden termination.

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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I think you replied to the wrong post, Xance. Nothing you said has anything to do with my comments on EEOC or wrongful termination vis-a-vis right to work states.

And you don't have to list "ongoing legal issues" on an application.

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51 minutes ago, tacticool said:

I think you replied to the wrong post, Xance. Nothing you said has anything to do with my comments on EEOC or wrongful termination vis-a-vis right to work states.

And you don't have to list "ongoing legal issues" on an application.

Perhaps I did, but the point still stands. There seems to be 2-3 subthemes running around in this thread now.

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7 hours ago, tacticool said:

Two errors:

1. One the EEOC will review your complaint. If they find evidence of a violation, and you are a protected class, they will issue a Letter of Certification. Then you can proceed.

2. As for wrongful termination, it is next to impossible to sue for, and win, a wrongful termination lawsuit in Right-To-Work states. in a RTW state, you can leave at anytime for any or nor reason and your employer can terminate you at anytime for any or no reason. Check out www.justia.com

1. Who said anything about a 'protected class' ? Regardless, substantiating a workplace violation of this type (in the absence of a compelling paper trail or witnesses to lend credence to the claim), is extremely difficult and the ultimate burden of proof onus rests upon the plaintiff.

2. My point exactly! I don't need to refer to Justia.com as this is common knowledge.

Edited by morelostthanfound

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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On 7/30/2019 at 2:36 AM, morelostthanfound said:

1. Who said anything about a 'protected class' ? Regardless, substantiating a workplace violation of this type (in the absence of a compelling paper trail or witnesses to lend credence to the claim), is extremely difficult and the ultimate burden of proof onus rests upon the plaintiff.

2. My point exactly! I don't need to refer to Justia.com as this is common knowledge.

First, at least you commented directly on my two points unlike Xance! As to Point 1, I mentioned "protected class" as the term "hostile work environment" was raised. You cannot file an EEOC claim for a hostile work environment unless you are in a pre-defined protected class. If you are in a protected class, and have evidence of a hostile work environment that is due to your protected class, the EEOC will reviwe your claim, and if verified, will issue a Letter of Certification so you can proceed. I have worked this issue before.Again, this was in response to Xance, not you.

2. Again, my second point was to Xance as he believes you can just sue for wrongful termination. Glad you already know that!

Edited by tacticool
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TitaniumPlates has 15 years experience and specializes in ED.

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And seriously folks. It is so crystal clear to me that the ones touting the plethora of "legal avenues" available are relying on one word...

"Available". They exist. Yes. They do.

And this is a politicians wet dream in their way of doublespeak.

I will make tuition reimbursement available to all employees. But I will then put so many obstacles to actually collecting those benefits in front of you...that you give up In frustration and pay for it yourself.

I will give you a 10k sign on bonus. But I will divide it into 45 paychecks and tax them all.

I will give you a merit raise every year. But in the fine print I will make hoops like "you must write a proficiency directed at the 9 dimensions of our version of what a nurse should be including ethics. And we make sure there is no way you can prove how ethical you are...therefore....no raise."

Dont bulls#it a very experienced nurse and second careerist dude. Just dont. Child of a frakking Teamster to boot. Just dont even try.

It's clear that you have a goal in mind. Which is to disrupt the conversation with half truths. Parsing words like "negotiating".

Yes. When you sit and talk to a recruiter about getting more, and they have a range...that could be construed as negotiating. The spirit of what this term means here is that you negotiate for something that no one without your experience and skill could get. Over and above. A bonus.

Not within a range.

I recently applied for and snagged a great job. Based on my education and experience, I was slotted into a particular pay rate.

I didnt like it.

I wrote a detailed report, based on the requirements of the job I was applying for, spoke to those skills and touted my education, experience and skill in those direct areas. I also spoke to the level ABOVE me, something that my supervisor would be responsible for doing....and touted the skills, education and experiences I have doing the job of someone ABOVE ME.

The offer was sent back to me and my starting pay jumped $20k per year.

I was told originally that based on my education, work history and certs....THE RANGE of my salary was a particular sum.

The TOP of that RANGE is 9k LESS than I accepted.

THAT, my friend is NEGOTIATING.

Edited by TitaniumPlates

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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Looks like @TitaniumPlates didn't need a union to negotiate!

And on that note, when you apply for a job, and get interviewed, and get called back to sign your Offer Letter, you don't have to sign! You can negotiate! No need for a union.

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TitaniumPlates has 15 years experience and specializes in ED.

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2 minutes ago, tacticool said:

Looks like @TitaniumPlates didn't need a union to negotiate!

And on that note, when you apply for a job, and get interviewed, and get called back to sign your Offer Letter, you don't have to sign! You can negotiate! No need for a union.

It can go either way, dude. I have a crap ton of experience before and after my nursing career started. I have leverage.

What the unions can do is protect those that dont have leverage from being exploited.

Dont twist my words.

Unions exist AS leverage.

If you abuse employees...the employees have EASY access to recourse without driving themselves into debt or being terminated and blacklisted while they fight.

Unions are collective bargaining. We all agree that if you as an employer mandate overtime under threat of termination...you will have no nurses on this unit to staff and make your hospital money.

Leverage.

Which is why the union at the VA has no teeth and is useless. There is a paper you must sign when you start that no matter what...you will NEVER participate in a work stoppage.

THAT is leverage. I will let you join whatever union you like...as long as you can never collectively hold my feet to the fire.

If businesses did the right thing by their employees...unions would never have existed.

Edited by TitaniumPlates

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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And by the way, are there non-nurses on here? It looks like Rionir and Wuzzie don't have the nurse icon next to their names.

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On 7/31/2019 at 3:28 PM, tacticool said:

And by the way, are there non-nurses on here? It looks like Rionir and Wuzzie don't have the nurse icon next to their names.

Not that I have to answer to you but I have been a nurse for 31 years (NICU,PICU,ED,Flight,Oncology) which my posting history will support should you bother to read anything I've written. I am also a paramedic. You?

I choose to minimize anything that will help identify me as it's nobody's business who I am.

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Guest957596 has 3 years experience and specializes in BSN, RN-BC, NREMT, EMT-P, TCRN.

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3 minutes ago, TitaniumPlates said:

It can go either way, dude. I have a crap ton of experience before and after my nursing career started. I have leverage.

What the unions can do is protect those that dont have leverage from being exploited.

Dont twist my words.

Dude! I wasn't twisting your words- I was agreeing with you! Put on your thinking cap, dude.

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