So, about two weeks ago I had a very unpleasant interaction with my patients primary provider. I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there. This is in front of about 15 people. According to him, I should not even talk when he is in with a patient. In the middle of his rant. I interrupted him and frankly said, " There is no reason for you to be so disrespectful towards me, and if there is anything else you need to let me know, feel free once you decide to behave like a professional." and left. I was later pulled aside by my charge (who witnessed the entire thing) and told that it was unprofessional for me to "point" and raise my voice in front of everyone.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
In this scenario, when we are both in a patient room, working together to achieve the same goal for this patient - absolutely. This physician wasn't tapping a foot in a life or death moment. The patient did not interrupt him in the middle of magical life saving to ask about a bus ride home. Honestly, this was the patient's time - that the patient is paying for.
Don't get me wrong. I admire and respect the physicians that I work with. They have a very important job. It is not one that I envy or want. But just as I have a respect for their job and their time, I expect the same in return. I think that is what teamwork is all about. I am lucky that I have it.
When we are working together, in any situation, I expect that we are both there working for the patient.
And I feel in this instance, the patient is the one that is being overlooked.
And if a doctor every told me off over answering a patient's question, regardless of the poor timing, I'd have a problem with it. It's just pompous if nothing else. I would feel the same way regardless of who we are talking about: surgeon, respiratory therapist, physical therapist, hospital administrator.
No matter how annoying it is to have to circle back and go over the same thing 5937873 times because the patient isn't listening and is more worried about their ride home, it is what it is.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
I keep reading all of this "different time" stuff and how we gave up our chairs for doctors and we were handmaidens etc so I just want to jump in here for a moment and say that if that behavior was common it wasn't when I started and I don't know of any of my peers real-life stories of such behavior.
I thought this thread was asking if the nurse who raised her voice and pointed as a response to the loudmouth was acting inappropriately for "standing up for herself". The question itself defines her behavior as "standing up for herself", so if we suggest alternative behaviors it's saying it's OK to be a doormat? Of course not. It's saying there are other ways she could have done that.
Neither are we saying the doctor's time is more important, or the patient doesn't have the right to know how they will be transferred to their LTC facility. Sorry, but for me to realize a doctor is making rounds and I'm going to be there for several hours and defer the floor to him out of common courtesy does not make me a simpering, fainting weakling of a nurse.
nursel56, I agree with you completely. Honestly I think we all have very different movies playing out in our head about what happened. I didn't read it as this RN was even overstepping the physician's conversation - just answering a question that had been directed at her. But maybe she did, maybe she spent fifteen minutes discussing the transfer. We don't really know. In my head she gave a few words to answer the patient (which I would think is appropriate), and the Dr. got his panties in a wad and off loaded on her.
My response to a physician wouldn't have been the same as the OP's.
But I wouldn't make excuses for him or just sit back and let him berate me either. I think there's a fine line. It's possible to be assertive without being aggressive, you know?
I see nothing wrong with the nurse answering the patient's question. This what rounds with a team are about and what JCH wants. How a patient is being transferred is part of the care plan and ongoing care.
I would have said to this guy, when he started, that this is not the time or place and I would be glad to talk about this in a private area with either my charge nurse or unit manager present. Pointing and raising your voice isn't necessary. Just state this, turn and walk away. Experience helps to be able to do this, but everyone needs to do this with this guy when he starts.
I think we all know how it feels when a visitor starts having a side conversation with the patient while we are trying to complete the admission or an assessment.
It is possible that the nurse's side conversation with the patient made the doctor feel like that.
I don't understand something...,why did the physician think you were undermining him if the patient asked a medically unrelated question and you answered it?
Yes, I do. Just because someone has more education than me does not mean their time is inherently more important. Nor is my time more important than the housekeeper's. All of us work together to take care of the patients. The difference in education is reflected in our salaries.
In this case it's hard to tell how the OP came off not having been there, but it sounds like the MD was being a jerk.
No, it is not wrong for you to stand up for yourself. Just because someone says you're wrong about something, or they don't like the way you may have handled something, does not necessarily mean you're wrong, even if it is the supervisor. If you step back and think about this, your charge nurse said NOTHING to the physician while this was going on, if this is indeed what you described. This says more about his/her style of managing conflicts than it does your own. The physician's style is aggression/intimidation/bullying, the charge nurse's style is acquiescence/fear/accommodation, and your style is direct/assertive/clear. Don't let what others think direct what you know is right. Even nurses and doctors can disagree and do disagree, even in their approach to conflict.
~PedsRN~, BSN, RN
826 Posts
In this scenario, when we are both in a patient room, working together to achieve the same goal for this patient - absolutely. This physician wasn't tapping a foot in a life or death moment. The patient did not interrupt him in the middle of magical life saving to ask about a bus ride home. Honestly, this was the patient's time - that the patient is paying for.
Don't get me wrong. I admire and respect the physicians that I work with. They have a very important job. It is not one that I envy or want. But just as I have a respect for their job and their time, I expect the same in return. I think that is what teamwork is all about. I am lucky that I have it.
When we are working together, in any situation, I expect that we are both there working for the patient.
And I feel in this instance, the patient is the one that is being overlooked.
And if a doctor every told me off over answering a patient's question, regardless of the poor timing, I'd have a problem with it. It's just pompous if nothing else. I would feel the same way regardless of who we are talking about: surgeon, respiratory therapist, physical therapist, hospital administrator.
No matter how annoying it is to have to circle back and go over the same thing 5937873 times because the patient isn't listening and is more worried about their ride home, it is what it is.