So, about two weeks ago I had a very unpleasant interaction with my patients primary provider. I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there. This is in front of about 15 people. According to him, I should not even talk when he is in with a patient. In the middle of his rant. I interrupted him and frankly said, " There is no reason for you to be so disrespectful towards me, and if there is anything else you need to let me know, feel free once you decide to behave like a professional." and left. I was later pulled aside by my charge (who witnessed the entire thing) and told that it was unprofessional for me to "point" and raise my voice in front of everyone.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
You did nothing wrong, but really, that is irrelevant. There is no reason for anyone, doctor or not, to speak to you that way. Ever. Don't allow it, even in the situations where you are "wrong".
Sorry, but this is a pet peeve of mine. Freedom of speech does not mean that you can say whatever you want whenever you want to whomever you want. Specifically, you cannot raise your voice and point and someone in a professional/work setting and not expect repercussions. If you think this was a freedom of speech issue, what would stop the doc from claiming freedom of speech? Would he not have the right to berate anyone he wants to in the nurses station? Of course he was totally wrong for what he did and how he acted, but that does not give the nurse the right to "return" the behavior.
Sounds like the pointing and raising your voice was the issue, not that you stood up for yourself. You left off that bit of information when describing what you said. Yeah, your actions were about on the same level of disrespect as the doctors, in my opinion. It was like you reprimanded him like he was a child. I think had you just stated that he was being disrespectful and not pointed or raised your voice, it would not have been as much of a problem.
To this point, I do think that you should be allowed to request that you be addressed respectfully and not like a child. I think that requiring silence while the doctor is in the room is a bit haughty and I could see myself rolling my eyes awfully hard at this particular dr. I'm glad that you realize that the pointing was rude. Still, I don't think he has the right to come at you like that.
It is not inappropriate to stand up for yourself, but how you do that can determine whether you achieve your desired goal (respect). It's possible that many peoples' first gut reaction might be to want to take the guy down a peg. And it may have felt momentarily gratifying to say/ do what you did.
In the long run I think the people who are suggesting to give a blank and non-flinching stare, lowering your voice, stating your refusal to be spoken to that way in a calm, no nonsense tone, or simply walking away from the rant could have been much more effective.
Telling him his behavior (yelling-which is obviously unprofessional) was not professional is stating the obvious. Let his behavior state that, you don't need to join him in the mud.
I very much agree that in cases of disrespectful behavior you should stand up for yourself. I'm just going to put out there, in cases where I feel moved to yelling over someone (has happened in other settings, not work) I tend to sound less in control and I'm sure I get less respect when I let that fly.
The more control you have of your own responses the more power you have in that situation.
Intimidation and disruptive behaviors are a Joint Commission sentinel event. Hospitals are required to provide an environment that allows for a zero tolerance of these kinds of events.
After reading OP's account of this incident, two things struck me. First, I'm surprised that OP even heard anything after MD told her that she shouldn't even "speak" while he was in the room! Really?? 1950 called and they are looking for their lost doctor. I would have been doubled over with laughter after that remark and I'm sure I would have missed most of his rant.
Second, what the heck was the charge nurse doing while all this was going down? According to OP, charge nurse witnessed the entire incident. In my opinion, most of this could probably have been avoided if the charge nurse would have taken CHARGE of the situation! Perhaps something like, "Dr. Snowflake, I see you are a little upset over something that happened in your patient's room with Nurse Nancy. Why don't we all step into my office (or the back room or any other more private venue) so we can discuss it without interrupting patient care?" That might have taken the wind out of his sails or at the very least, taken them away from the eyes and ears of the other staff, patients and visitors in the area.
Bottom line.... MD was wrong in what he did, but OP should not have yelled back at him or pointed her finger at him. While she was attempting to stand up for herself, she displayed the same poor behavior the physician did. Both displayed unprofessional behavior and each owes the other an apology. And maybe the charge nurse should attend some conflict resolution seminars because she missed an opportunity here to head this off at the pass.
Absolutely not. You did nothing wrong, and your charge nurse/manager not supporting you without learning the facts is a coward. I hope that you wrote the Physician up for not only unprofessional behavior, but for creating a hostile workplace.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I am amazed to read all these postings coming from nurses that support bullying. What happened to this free country? Freedom of speech??? If more nurses will stand up for themselves, maybe, we will be respected and appreciated for the hard work and dedication for our patients, and bullying will be eliminated. Nurses should be united no matter what.
We all make mistakes because we are humans and making mistakes differentiate us from robots. Who never made a mistake, please, throw first that rock! When everybody will learn to behave as a professional, then, you should be blamed for standing up for yourself.
No one has "supported bullying."
"Standing up for yourself" does not mean raising your voice and pointing when a colleague is airing a legitimate grievance. The OP may not have appreciated the delivery or even the location, but that doesn't invalidate the message. Too many people seem to equate "negative feedback" with "bullying" and that, to me, is frightening. Here we have an entire generation of people who cannot accept negative feedback, and they're responsible for taking care of brittle, vulnerable human beings who can come to serious harm if they screw up.
The original post wasn't about the original poster making a life-threatening mistake, but it does speak the the poster's ability to take negative feedback, learn from the feedback and incorporate that into her practice.
No one has stated the doctor was correct for "yelling at her in front of 15 people" if, indeed that was the case. What is often the case is that posters interpret any negative feedback, no matter how respectfully given, as "yelling." In this case, while the doctor's point may have had some validity, his delivery sucked. I'm sorry that happened. But you still need to learn from the incident, and it has absolutely nothing to do with bullying.
Stressed out people sometimes lose their cool -- that applies to doctors, nurses, clin techs, housekeepers and patients. No one has said that it's good to yell at and point at patients who have lost their cool. Those patients are a temporary part of our work environment. They'll be gone next week and we'll have different patients in their place. The doctors are probably there to stay. That means one should take extra effort to get along with them. Unless one means to change jobs again and again looking for the perfect position where no one ever loses their cool.
(And I'll bet that doctor thought the poster was out of her mind for sticking her finger in his face!)
"Standing up for yourself" does not mean raising your voice and pointing when a colleague is airing a legitimate grievance. The OP may not have appreciated the delivery or even the location, but that doesn't invalidate the message. Too many people seem to equate "negative feedback" with "bullying" and that, to me, is frightening. Here we have an entire generation of people who cannot accept negative feedback, and they're responsible for taking care of brittle, vulnerable human beings who can come to serious harm if they screw up.
The original post wasn't about the original poster making a life-threatening mistake, but it does speak the the poster's ability to take negative feedback, learn from the feedback and incorporate that into her practice.
No one has stated the doctor was correct for "yelling at her in front of 15 people" if, indeed that was the case. What is often the case is that posters interpret any negative feedback, no matter how respectfully given, as "yelling." In this case, while the doctor's point may have had some validity, his delivery sucked. I'm sorry that happened. But you still need to learn from the incident, and it has absolutely nothing to do with bullying.
Stressed out people sometimes lose their cool -- that applies to doctors, nurses, clin techs, housekeepers and patients. No one has said that it's good to yell at and point at patients who have lost their cool. Those patients are a temporary part of our work environment. They'll be gone next week and we'll have different patients in their place. The doctors are probably there to stay. That means one should take extra effort to get along with them. Unless one means to change jobs again and again looking for the perfect position where no one ever loses their cool.
I was thinking the same. Thank you for making these very valid points.
I believe you were yelled at by this physician because nurses are not respected. No one should be yelling at anyone. The patient asked you a question and you answered it.
I did point, I raised my voice to speak over him. I did not yell, and stayed calm the entire time.
Why the heck did the charge not stand up for you??? I had a Doctor do me the same thing, difference circumstances because I forgot to do a lab or something and he came to the nursing station and embarrassed me, I said ok I will get it done, then the charge stood up and said doctor you are way out of line for talking to my nurses like that. There is really no need for a doctor to treat you like that. He/she is not your boss.
Your charge should not be siding with the doctor regardless of who was right or wrong. If I'm in the room I interrupt doctors if they got something wrong, or to clarify their plans, its your JOB to ADVOCATE for the patient. I'd go to your nurse manager to have this resolved.
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13 Posts
You did nothing wrong, but really, that is irrelevant. There is no reason for anyone, doctor or not, to speak to you that way. Ever. Don't allow it, even in the situations where you are "wrong".