So, about two weeks ago I had a very unpleasant interaction with my patients primary provider. I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there. This is in front of about 15 people. According to him, I should not even talk when he is in with a patient. In the middle of his rant. I interrupted him and frankly said, " There is no reason for you to be so disrespectful towards me, and if there is anything else you need to let me know, feel free once you decide to behave like a professional." and left. I was later pulled aside by my charge (who witnessed the entire thing) and told that it was unprofessional for me to "point" and raise my voice in front of everyone.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
About the boiling rage when the phone interrupts. I had a family member counting the number of times my phone rang during teaching on the Spiriva and Advair diskus inhaler use--both new to the patient. SEVEN!!!!
and when I came out, I had three people get short with me that I didn't answer the phone. **** that.
From your post history you are a new nurse. Without knowing what you said in reply to the patient's question, it is not possible to conclude that your answer, although not apparently directly related to the conversation the physician was having with the patient, did support his/her discussion with the patient. In my opinion, in these kinds of situations, one needs to tread very carefully. When the physician approached you angrily afterwards, stating that you had undermined his/her discussion with the patient, in my opinion it would have been appropriate to hold your tongue, and listen to the physician's objections, and try to understand the physician's point of view, instead of launching into defense mode. You say that you raised your voice to speak over him, and pointed; I suggest that in future you try listening first. The physician, not you, is in charge of the patient's care, and he apparently had specific reasons for objecting to what you said to the patient. The patient's needs are the most important here, not your need to stand up for yourself. From the limited information you provided, I cannot support your behavior.
Girl bye.
If any of my coworkers approach me aggressively I would do the same and more.
Specializes in ED, Cardiac-step down, tele, med surg.
Nurses are too use to abuse by rude MDs who think their time and their precious ego is so much more important than every thing else. Back in the day nurses used to give up their seats to MDs. Maybe some of the old school nurses have it ingrained that MDs have a right to treat other people with disrespect. But this is a new era and health care is changing. Respecting coworkers and teamwork make the system work better.
There was nothing stopping the physician from cutting in to the conversation with you and the patient and letting you know that they wanted to speak now and if you could continue the conversation at a later time. The physician didn't have the communication skill to navigate that and that's their problem.
I think you did the best you could in the moment and shouldn't get used to taking abuse from anyone. If he was yelling at you and degrading you infront of other people, that is unprofessional and you had every right to say stop. Maybe next time, you could improve your delivery, by saying something to the effect of I won't tolerate this disrespectful tone and either walk away or take him to the side so you can discuss it away from other people. If you did something wrong he should have taken you to the side, not humiliated you in public.
So if I were you I would write this up because I wouldn't want another issue like that with this physician. It sounds like, from what you said, he's done this before but you should still document it. If he was offended that you pointed at him and raised your voice, you could apologize for that aspect of the interaction. And you could explain that you won't be treated disrespectfully as it is unprofessional and detrimental to patient care.
I think if it were me, I would have handled it by walking away or guiding the person away from other people where we could have had a private discussion and if they continued yelling, would have asked them to stop and if they were still irate would have just written them up. I like to be the one to be totally in the right so that all of the fault falls on them.
If any of my coworkers approach me aggressively I would do the same and more.
Manners please; my name is not "girl." Your profile says that you are a student. If you are going to be a nurse, you will learn that manners count. In the OP's case, the physician, who was undermined by the OP in a discussion with the patient, yelled at the OP in front of 15 people in regard to being undermined by the OP. We are not told that the physician yelled abuses at the nurse, threw a chart, or verbally or physically threatened the nurse.
By all means behave in any way you wish, and reap the consequences.
So yelling at the OP is ok because he didn't throw anything or call her a #$%^& ? Hmm OK. Am I the only one who starts writing and stares intently at her paperwork while a tantrum is being thrown? It makes them look bad and takes all of the wind out of their sails.
Manners please; my name is not "girl." Your profile says that you are a student. If you are going to be a nurse, you will learn that manners count. In the OP's case, the physician, who was undermined by the OP in a discussion with the patient, yelled at the OP in front of 15 people in regard to being undermined by the OP. We are not told that the physician yelled abuses at the nurse, threw a chart, or verbally or physically threatened the nurse.
By all means behave in any way you wish, and reap the consequences.
Chile please.
Sup?
I'm graduating soon. No "if" about it. Lets no disguise your holiest of holiness attitude with " better learn manners" its demeaning to my intelligence. Since you want to school me on what it takes to be a nurse, don't you think a nurse should have a back bone? If I was in that situation, that dr could talk to me all day but when I feel disrespected its time for a reiteration on professional boundaries. If you are my coworker you have no right to talk to me that way, I would make it 100% clear you wont do it again.
Patients my patience is huge. Coworkers not so much
As if yelling at a nurse in front of 15 people over answering a patient's question with a doctor in the room is a way to forge good working relationships.
Docs walk in, don't say a peep to the nurse, interrupt patient teaching, med pass, etc., and don't bother apologizing.
teamwork in healthcare is so dysfunctional, and this just perpetuates it.
This wasn't about the physician's behavior. I agree he was wrong. I also agree the OP needed to stand up for herself. The OP's issue in this situation is that she was reprimanded for being unprofessional. The charge nurse did not tell her to not stand up for herself or to submit to the doctor, the charge nurse reprimanded her for acting unprofessional which she did. I'm sorry she did.
I have a hard time understanding why people think it's ok to abandon decency and professionalism because the other party was wrong. Two wrongs do not equal a right. So now, not only did all of these people's colleague's see both of them acting like children, but I'm sure the patients heard it too. At what point is losing all cool ok on the job. I'm sure if the OP had acted in a different manner everybody else on that floor including the charge nurse and patients, would have seen the doctor accurately, which pretty much is a bully. A complaint may have been filed and he might have lost some business due to it. But by her raising her voice also, they both looked like children, and everyone loses. Now, people stop using this hospital and spread the word to others that the nurses and doctors can't get along which gives the impression that patient care is not up to par. And guess who will lose their job first when complaints get filed about both of them, the nurse. Her charge nurse was doing her a big favor by telling her she acted professionally. Keep your temper in check at all times. A place of employment is not some hole-in-the-wall bar, or a back street ally where that kind of exchange is accepted. This is where you work.
I have a hard time understanding why people think it's ok to abandon decency and professionalism because the other party was wrong. Two wrongs do not equal a right. So now, not only did all of these people's colleague's see both of them acting like children, but I'm sure the patients heard it too. At what point is losing all cool ok on the job. I'm sure if the OP had acted in a different manner everybody else on that floor including the charge nurse and patients, would have seen the doctor accurately, which pretty much is a bully. A complaint may have been filed and he might have lost some business due to it. But by her raising her voice also, they both looked like children, and everyone loses. Now, people stop using this hospital and spread the word to others that the nurses and doctors can't get along which gives the impression that patient care is not up to par. And guess who will lose their job first when complaints get filed about both of them, the nurse. Her charge nurse was doing her a big favor by telling her she acted professionally. Keep your temper in check at all times.
I feel like you may have imagined this much more violently than I did. Raising your voice to talk over someone and pointing at them, while rude, doesn't seem like "abandoning decency," or "losing all cool." Losing your cool would be screaming at someone at the nurse's station. OP was mildly rude. Should OP keep it in check next time? Sure, but let's not overstate the situation.
A place of employment is not some hole-in-the-wall bar, or a back street ally where that kind of exchange is accepted. This is where you work.
You must live some place nice. Around here they don't talk over you and wag their finger in back allies. They punch you in the face and steal your purse/wallet while you're reeling. I agree that would be inappropriate workplace behavior.
I have learned to bite my tongue, smile, nod, blink innocently.
Then I send a fun email to their attending or the BMOC.
I don't work for a physician. They are not my superiors. They are not my boss.
:)
I am actually surprised at the amount of responses on this thread that suggested that the OP should tell the patient that their question was irrelevant and they would talk about it later. To the patient, that question is obviously relevant or they wouldn't have asked it. We don't know what the doctor was droning on about. Maybe it was about electrolyte imbalances, or something else that was flying right over the patient's head. Maybe this patient was used to the doctor not listening TO THEM. Who knows?
I can tell you right now, if I am in a room with a patient and they stop the doctor to ask a question to me, I will answer them.
Because like I said, that physician is not my boss. We work together. And we work for the PATIENT.
And if I had a dollar for every time a physician has interrupted ME and MY work for something that was NOT important at the moment, I'd be a millionaire. :)
I am lucky that truly, I work with physicians that respect me and my time and our patients. We work together well, and we are a team.
The few that have come at me like the OP? I usually end up getting an apology from them. After their boss sits them down and tells them to quit being mean to the nurses.
PedsRN, your post helped me figure out what annoyed me so much about some responses. The physician, in this case, was held in higher regard over not only the nurse, but also the patient!
Some told the OP she should redirect the pt to listen to the doctor, as if the pt's concerns were insignificant to whatever the doctor was saying. "Oh, no, Ms. Patient...time to be quiet, the doctor is speaking now! I'll answer you later...after he's finished!"
Good lord.
Some told the OP it wasn't about her...she should listen to his yelling, try to understand his viewpoint. Ok, then, it's all about him, his time, his need to dress her down in front of people.
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dudette10, MSN, RN
3,530 Posts
About the boiling rage when the phone interrupts. I had a family member counting the number of times my phone rang during teaching on the Spiriva and Advair diskus inhaler use--both new to the patient. SEVEN!!!!
and when I came out, I had three people get short with me that I didn't answer the phone. **** that.