So, about two weeks ago I had a very unpleasant interaction with my patients primary provider. I was in the patients room with him and they were talking about the care plan, when the patient directly asked me a question. It was nothing medical related, and not anything relevant to what they had been talking about, but I answered the question. I then went to the nursing station to chart while they continued. The doctor came raging out and started to yell at me for undermining him in there. This is in front of about 15 people. According to him, I should not even talk when he is in with a patient. In the middle of his rant. I interrupted him and frankly said, " There is no reason for you to be so disrespectful towards me, and if there is anything else you need to let me know, feel free once you decide to behave like a professional." and left. I was later pulled aside by my charge (who witnessed the entire thing) and told that it was unprofessional for me to "point" and raise my voice in front of everyone.
I just cannot believe that I was pretty much being told not to stand up for myself.
The patient asked me about how he was going to be transferred to the long term facility he was going to be transferred to. I explained to him that ems will come and prepare him for transport and he will be transferred in an ambulance. The doctor was literally mad because I talked while he was in the room. Me talking was undermining him. I guess he wanted to explain that maybe?? I don't know.
If that was the case fine. If the doctor really doesn't want me to talk while he is in the room I won't, but there is no reason for him to embarrass me in front of so many people. This same doctor did something similar a couple of days before to another new nurse and she ended up crying for 20 min after he yelled at her. This is not okay. And if I am wrong for not "biting my tongue" maybe nursing is not the field for me. I don't tolerate bullying.
While I totally understand that me pointing at him was rude, I really did not realize that I was doing it, and accept that it was wrong of me to do that.
Standing up for yourself can take different forms. Do the one that's wisest in the circumstances.
Sometimes, when attacked that way it's best to say nothing, while taking careful note of exactly what's happening, including the time, location, and witnesses. Then once the scene is over, file a formal grievance through the nursing administration. Be sure to be quick. You might even ask those present to take care to remember what happened.
That way there will be absolutely nothing you've done that can be called out of line. You answered a patient's question directed at you. There is nothing wrong with that. Later, when that physician came up to you angry, you did nothing that could be called out of line. You did not interrupt him, contradict him, or even raise your voice. You did not even disagree with him. You can't be blamed for the scene. Recall the biblical 'turning the other cheek."
He'll then be slammed without warning with your formal grievance. Responding will take time he'd rather not spend. Since you were all sweetness and light, there'll be nothing he can accuse you off. The fact that you blindsided him that way means that he'll take more care in dealing with you in the future and perhaps even with other nurses. He'll never know when there'll be another grievance filed.
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My hunch is that there may have more going on in that patient's room than you realized. The patient may have been feeling uncomfortable with the pressure that MD was applying. Asking that irrelevant question to you was a way to break that pressure. Sensing that happened is what may have been what ticked the MD off. If that's what happened, then you were innocently doing the patient a favor. The patient wanted you to undermine what the MD was doing.
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In other situations, it's best to keep a situation from breaking out into angry or tense words and let time cool the tension. Long ago I worked nights at a major children's hospital and occasionally taught CPR to staff. Since I got off at about 7:30 am, the CPR administrator asked me to set up a conference room next to the lunchroom for an 8 am meeting of CPR teachers. The rooms were checked out by the hour, and the rules were posted. Those in a room were to leave by ten minutes before the next hour.
I showed up at 7:55, and who was in the room but the hospital's CEO and a couple of others. For whatever reason, I didn't feel inclined to dart away with a quick apology. After all I was in the right not him, but he was clearly unhappy with the situation. Call it guilt, call it embarrassment, or call it 'the rules don't apply to me.' I don't know, but I didn't back down. Nothing specific was said, but I stayed as he hurried out. The room was mine and he must leave.
Later, I wondered if he'd take revenge, but concluded that our positions were so far apart he'd look silly doing anything. A few weeks later I ran into him in the hall. He recognized me and smiled. The situation hadn't escalated enough to leave him angry with me. Neither of us had lost our cool earlier. That's what mattered. Sometimes its best to say nothing and let matters calm down.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
The patient asked me about how he was going to be transferred to the long term facility he was going to be transferred to. I explained to him that ems will come and prepare him for transport and he will be transferred in an ambulance. The doctor was literally mad because I talked while he was in the room. Me talking was undermining him. I guess he wanted to explain that maybe??
NO.....As I said in my previous post this was not something to be discussed while the doctor was in the room ...It clearly demonstrates the patient was NOT listening and I'm sure he was expecting you to help guide the patients attention back to the matter at hand.....I have to do this all the time with residents and family.Usually the doc will say "Nurse KTW will explain that in a moment but now yada yada...etc".....It's not always about YOU The fact this doc did something similar to another new nurse leads me to believe you both are not getting the mentoring you need or not accepting guidance from your peers....It's inane to think the doc is going to stand there while you discuss transport arrangement with the patient.....
Specializes in Psych, Corrections, Med-Surg, Ambulatory.
The doctor in this situation does sound like a jerk, if the whole thing went down the way you described. It is preferable to stand up for yourself, rather than be reduced to tears, like your coworker. However, raising your voice and pointing your finger just makes you look like 2 people fighting in the nursing station.
Another method might be to stand up straight, look him in the eye and say nothing. Keep your expression as neutral as possible. Let him blither away. It becomes quickly apparent to bystanders who is the unprofessional one. Just keep standing there calmly while he runs out of steam and see what he does after that. He'll either stomp off in a huff or slink away sheepishly, but you will have given him none of your power if you don't cry, yell or get defensive.
.....It's not always about YOU The fact this doc did something similar to another new nurse leads me to believe you both are not getting the mentoring you need or not accepting guidance from your peers....It's inane to think the doc is going to stand there while you discuss transport arrangement with the patient.....
I have an amazing mentor, and am open to critique, that is how we improve. There is a correct, professional way to handle that.
And as I've said in a previous post, If the doctor doesn't want me to talk while in the room, that is fine, I have no problem with that. But berating me in front of so many people is okay? I'm sorry I took 14 seconds out of his precious day, but there is no excuse treating people that way.
Another method might be to stand up straight, look him in the eye and say nothing. Keep your expression as neutral as possible. Let him blither away. It becomes quickly apparent to bystanders who is the unprofessional one.
This was the answer that I was looking for, thank you.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
The doc WAS a jerk,IMHO.But you need to learn how to facilitate communication between the patients and their docs.Acknowledge your behavior was just as bad and learn as you move forward.
Understandably, you probably raised your voice and pointed...and that is what she probably is reprimanding you on. As a human being, I can understand why you did that! I think it could have been worse, and I think you handled it well, in spite of raising your voice. Hopefully, that will be the end of it and he will think twice next time before he berates you.
Specializes in M/S, Pulmonary, Travel, Homecare, Psych..
Have you ever seen the movie "The Shawshank Redemption"? A scene in that movie is very applicable here.
In the scene, Andy is talking to Red. Recently, Red and all their other friends discovered Andy was truly innocent of murdering his wife (sorry if I spoiled the movie for you). Andy goes on to explain how things lead to him spending years of his life in jail for a murder he didn't commit: "Bad luck, I guess. It floats around. It's got to land on somebody. It was my turn, that's all. I was in the path of the tornado."
Whether or not we're supported after an encounter with someone changes too much from incident to incident. I've seen nurses say things along the lines of "I'll meet you in the parking lot any time you like and we'll find out how tough you are" to the doctor and not get fired. I've seen nurses handle situations with grace and charisma, then be let go for no reason what so ever.
This fact, that administration's reaction to encounters varies widely, can be taken many ways. The mood for the day perhaps affects their judgement. They don't want to deal with it and just pick a name out of the hat to blame it on then go about their business. Maybe they take each participant's history into account, maybe they don't. It's hard to tell what to think of it.
The best we can do is keep our side of the street as clean as possible. Then, if there is a scene involving us, we know we did our best to avoid it. Our job places around people at their worst, and I don't mean just the sick patients. Doctors, housekeepers, PT and everyone else are just as stressed as we are. With all these personalities floating around, everyone on edge from the word "go", disagreements are bound to happen.
And that's where my growth from when I was a new nurse has happened. I do have disagreements, like everyone else does. But when I was new, it seemed all my disagreements turned into scenes. Two reviews in a row from different managers (same facility) said my weak point was "Needs to learn the difference between assertive and aggressive and maintain better approaches to dealing with difficult people." Huge ego bruise. Although I'll defend myself here and say the second one was uncalled for and stemmed from once incident.....................(I'll spare you the details)
I had to work hard, in my personal time, to correct some things I was doing that seemed to escalate disagreements. I think many of us, on the nursing side of the street, could do the same. It's as if many of us need assertiveness training or something.
One of the things I had to work on was not allowing myself to be pushed to the point of boiling over. When people crossed me or were rude to me or whatever, I had to call them out on it, on the spot. I'd let it go by once..........twice.........three times. Then they'd catch me on a bad day or at a bad time and I'd go way over the top responding to their rudeness. This, in effect, made me that bad guy. All the stuff that lead up to that point was meaningless.
It sounds like you tried to do this, call out the behavior on the spot. Like others have said, if it happened just as you say it did then, you should have been supported after the incident, not corrected. Maybe, like Andy, you were just in the path of the tornado. Don't let it get you down and most certainly, don't let it make you believe you have to be a doormat.
remotefuse
177 Posts
The patient asked me about how he was going to be transferred to the long term facility he was going to be transferred to. I explained to him that ems will come and prepare him for transport and he will be transferred in an ambulance. The doctor was literally mad because I talked while he was in the room. Me talking was undermining him. I guess he wanted to explain that maybe?? I don't know.
If that was the case fine. If the doctor really doesn't want me to talk while he is in the room I won't, but there is no reason for him to embarrass me in front of so many people. This same doctor did something similar a couple of days before to another new nurse and she ended up crying for 20 min after he yelled at her. This is not okay. And if I am wrong for not "biting my tongue" maybe nursing is not the field for me. I don't tolerate bullying.
While I totally understand that me pointing at him was rude, I really did not realize that I was doing it, and accept that it was wrong of me to do that.