WHY do I need a BSN?

Palliative Care, DNP · Jan 22, 2014

I am originally an ADN graduate. I went back for the BSN because it was important to me. I want all of my children to go to college. I think if that is my expectation then I should also meet the requirement. I also knew that floor nursing was not for me. I am now in a BSN to DNP program. I do believe nurses take several classes that are fluff. I detested nursing theory at the BSN and DNP levels. I even asked an instructor "When I would be seeing a patient as an NP wondering What would Patricia Benner do? How does this fit into Toulmin's Model?" She said never but you have to pass it. I do believe BSN should be entry level into nursing now. If we want to make the transition from job to profession then our minimum education needs to reflect that.

RNperdiem, RN · Jan 22, 2014

I am resigned that you have to keep up with the times, and degree inflation is a sign of the times. At some time I will probably have to get my BSN to stay employable.

I read mixed reviews about the education you get as an experienced nurse. Some have implied that if you look closely at the education from ASN to BSN, it is like paying top dollar for the emperor's new clothes.

Concerto_in_C, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2014

I met plenty of LPNs/ADNs. They are unhappy as soon as they finish their LPN school and start their first first job, generally in some nursing home that takes advantage of the nursing staff and offers brutally low wages. They are stuck in the worst jobs on the market without any way to advance their careers.

I understand those accelerated programs are promoted as "economical" or "time saving" solutions, because you can be a practicing nurse sooner, but if an LPN buys you 10 years of frustration and disappointments, then are you really "saving time/money" or are you really wasting your best, most productive years? Isn't it false economics?

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2014

I missed that but out of the hundreds (1000s) of posts here, that is not too bad.

...

...absolutely not! I love reading your posts.

I think the problem with the education as it is now is that it has tried to satisfy all the whiners with their own agendas. This includes the unions. Now nursing has a fragmented mess for higher education. Pick a path and strive to make it better. Trying to be on both sides of the tracks does not make for a progressive profession.

You said what what I tried and couldn't articulate... :down:

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2014

I met plenty of LPNs/ADNs. They are unhappy as soon as they finish their LPN school and start their first first job, generally in some nursing home that takes advantage of the nursing staff and offers brutally low wages. They are stuck in the worst jobs on the market without any way to advance their careers.
I understand those accelerated programs are promoted as "economical" or "time saving" solutions, because you can be a practicing nurse sooner, but if an LPN buys you 10 years of frustration and disappointments, then are you really "saving time/money" or are you really wasting your best, most productive years? Isn't it false economics?

ADNs are RN's they take the same licensing exam as the BSN

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jan 22, 2014

I'm all for education. I don't think there is an anti-intellectual tone. Frankly I am tired of the bullying, brow beating, and not so subtle insinuations that nurses with an ADN are...DUMBER and inferior. But there is plenty of academic elitism
For me, personally, my BSN added NOTHING to my competency as a bedside nurse with 20 years experience in critical care and trauma flight. I NEVER had a physician question my capabilities because I was "Only a ADN". Frankly they never asked. I am a extremely competent, highly skilled, professional who happens to have my BSN from an online program that taught me how to write a paper in the APA format. I am secure enough to not have to shove my schooling in everyone face to make me feel superior.
I personally RESENT the implication that those who do not have a BSN are somehow inferior even with 30 years of experience and specialty based certifications....because they are NOT inferior. I believe the ADN programs have been watered down in content by the very same academics that are promoting the BSN on purpose to reinforce their agenda.
But that is just my opinion.
Going forward...I think that there needs to be a single entry into nursing if only to STOP this incessant bickering and posturing about who's superior.

And in my neck of the woods, your BSN gets ya 25 more CENTS an hour. Tuition can be reimbursed, but that means $$ up front. Then comes the "we WILL pay for this and not that" debate. And most are capped. So with my whopping $3.00 a day on a 12 hour day, debt is not what I am into at this point in my life.

Up until about 3 years ago, I could do pretty much anything as an LPN that I was interested in. There was (and still is) a scope that I stuck to. Like every one of my peers. That is when facilities were into the most amount of work for the least paid. Oh, but apparently my mad skills at the bedside were enough to teach countless BSN's the how to's, you know, now that the newest thing is the most degree for the numbers.

What is the most compelling in this whole debate continues to be that in fact, ya'll take the same exact boards--diploma, ADN or BSN. So the only thing that is helpful for the added education is that a BSN is assisting a facility reach some sort of status quo. And that a number of new grad BSN's can't find jobs. And that we all continue to take on debt that facilities as a general rule do not subsidize in paying of decent salaries.

Concerto_in_C, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2014

ADNs are RN's they take the same licensing exam as the BSN

Sorry to say employers are jerks and they don't see it your way.

allnurses Guide · Jan 22, 2014

And in my neck of the woods, your BSN gets ya 25 more CENTS an hour.
And that a number of new grad BSN's can't find jobs.

These debates seem to always turn to the personal experience argument. Everyone is the most skilled nurse on the planet and they save lives daily and they pull other nurses more educated then them out of the fire day in and day out. Or they know someone that does the aforementioned. We need good national data to base policy-level decisions on, as a profession from LPNs to APRNs.

Nationally, a higher degree is rewarded with a 7-10% higher annual salary. Nationally, the unemployment rate for ADN vs BSN is about 3-4% higher. The much debated data from several studies point towards slightly improved outcomes.

There is simply to much local and individualized variability (for example, in my city the wage differential between a new grad BSN vs ADN is huge, because only BSNs get the major academic hospital jobs).

From my review of the data, it is my impression that additional education does nothing but improve individual nurses and the aggregate sum appears to be significant. Additionally it drives forward both the future of the individual and the profession.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Jan 22, 2014

Was this in reply to my post? I've been a nurse for 11 years, several of those in critical care. Maybe that kind of thinking isn't my strength, or maybe I just didn't get this one that they taught (the whole semester we learned about one particular theory, not many different theories, plus holistic healing practices), maybe I should have asked more questions. But at the end of the semester I only had a few nuggets that I felt like I could apply, and I really did put a lot of time and effort into that class. :down:

You will find that nursing theory will mean more to you when you are an actual, like, nurse. But at least being aware that it exists and that different people see what you do in different ways can encourage you to think about how you see it, yourself. That, in turn, can influence how you go about doing your job, how you develop your career, and how you teach and care for others. It's not wasted fluff, it's about developing a deeper appreciation and understanding of the whole ball of wax.

Like I said, though, you probably have to be more mature in your professional growth before you appreciate it. You'll get there. In life, as in everything else, fortune favors the prepared mind.

VANurse2010 · Jan 22, 2014

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - this issue will continue to arise until BSN nurses are required to take different, more difficult boards. Given the increase in patient population coming down the pike, I doubt very seriously ADN programs will see elimination - therefore the battle continues. From my perspective, I have a baccalaureate (from a college most of my colleagues couldn't have even gotten into) and an associate's in nursing. I don't really need a few more courses in theory and public health to help me not earn a dime more than I currently am. I will continue like this until my employer offers decent tuition reimbursement.

TraumaSurfer · Jan 22, 2014

Let me throw a new twist in this. How about others coming in who don't mind being paid less than you, which still might be more than before, doing what you do? We have already seen the beginnings of this. As much as I have preached that Paramedics should not move forth until their education level is raised to where at least college level A&P is required, they have a very strong and wealthy union to lobby for them. Even though there is a Fire vs Private battle, the Fire unions are still pushing forth legislation to advance EMS for more opportunities but without the extra education. However, there are lots of Associates degree programs for Paramedics if they ever do get inspired to go the education route. Paramedics right now are mowing over the RTs when it comes to transport. In Oregon at least a dozen RTs lost their transport jobs when the company hired cheaper Paramedics to replace them. There have been recent changes in the make up of some well known Pedi and NICU transport teams where Paramedics have replaced the RTs. Paramedics already do what an RT does in the ER and in some places, more. RTs have gotten complacent and allowed RNs to take back all the tasks such as MDI and nebulizers. RTs also were not able to show they made a difference in LTC and no longer reap the benefits of reimbursement in that area. A few RTs thought they could get the BS degree as their entry but have failed miserably to where a few BSRT schools have closed. They made the Associates degree they entry but still have many, many OJTs and CRTTs hanging around. No way would they support a Bill for anything to do with higher education.

In My Opinion : Medicare Respiratory Therapist Access Act

Paramedics have already had a stance in a few states which have allowed them to function in the ER "just like a nurse". I believe Kentucky and Virginia or West Virginia are examples. You have already seen comments made by some of the Paramedics on this forum that they can do what an RN can plus more "skills". Do the RNs have something more to show when that argument comes up in a legislative battle? The RNs already lost their arguments against the Community Paramedic and Advanced Paramedic Practitioner Bills which were recently pasted. Paramedics did not even have to raise their education level but merely stated they could do those "skills" also. When it comes down to it, they have a point for the "skill" portion and if the ADN is the only education for entry into nursing, that is a weak argument even if the focus is different. Several transport programs now have a Paramedic in charge over the RNs. But that is nothing new since some hospital specialty units have a non nurse as the manager. Iowa now has Intensive Care Paramedics which can function a little like an RT and a little like an RN. They will also work cheaper than either. Even California is not getting the Critical Care Paramedic scope of practice which will shake up the CCT world which had largely belong to nurses.

Do I agree with the approach Paramedics have taken to get more? No but they are hungry and have a large greedy political body behind them with some very deep pockets for lobbying and politicians in those pockets. Does this mean less is best when it comes to education? But, the playing field is get very level now for RTs, RNs and Paramedics. I believe we can count the RTs pretty much out of the race with too little too late. Will RNs continue with this fragmentation and ADN vs BSN until they too start to lose territory? The advances Paramedics have made in new territory is surprising but while nurses are fighting each other, the fire departments can make their move. I am really surprised as how fast Paramedics go their Bills passed using every bit of clout over the past 5 years as they saw the health care reform coming.

At least OT, PT and SLP professionals have set the bar high enough on the education ladder when few can touch them and they offer their own research to show they are worth every penny. With very few still holding the lower degrees, their professions are not as fragments. Maybe they learned something from others.

When your education and your skills start overlapping with others, your profession had better be strong with a good ace in the hole. A lot of new professions have popped up over the past few years. The Paramedic is not even one of the newer ones. RNs need to pull it together.

OCNRN63, RN · Jan 22, 2014

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education, in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so?
I don't see this kind of immature bellyaching in other fields. Pharmacists, doctors and physical therapists all did their time in school with 4 years being the minimum.
As long as the LPNs and ADNs keep up their sobbing about having to go to school, it's no wonder doctors and other allied health professionals don't take us seriously. Suck it up, buttercups. You might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread.
If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it. Seriously, this whole debate is stale, stupid and plain EMBARRASSING. Reality WINS, guys. Get the BSN and just quit the whining about it already.

This post is so offensive I don't even know where to start. There are many reasons why someone might not be in the position to go back to school. That doesn't mean that such person is dumb.

The level of contempt you display for your nursing peers (yes, peers) who don't have a BSN is disappointing and utterly lacking in professionalism.