WHY do I need a BSN?

[AnnMarie52471]

I am taking classes towards my BSN because like other nurses with a diploma or ADN I am being "forced" to return to school for my BSN. I have had my ADN for 9 years. My question is HOW is statistics, critical inquiry, and the other classes going to make me a better nurse? Isn't hands on training the best way to learn? I feel like they are requiring BSN now and in 10 years want MSN so that we wont need doctors working on the floors, because nurses will do their own orders!!

I am 42 y/o and rally don't want to do this, but I have a minimum of 23 years left of working and had to be forced to stay where I am due to not having a BSN. Sure they say we may be "grandfathered" in, but that limits us to stay put.

Anyone have any input on this, as to what am I going to learn getting my BSN and why the requirement now?

[mclennan, BSN, RN]

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education, in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so?

I don't see this kind of immature bellyaching in other fields. Pharmacists, doctors and physical therapists all did their time in school with 4 years being the minimum.

As long as the LPNs and ADNs keep up their sobbing about having to go to school, it's no wonder doctors and other allied health professionals don't take us seriously. Suck it up, buttercups. You might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread.

If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it. Seriously, this whole debate is stale, stupid and plain EMBARRASSING. Reality WINS, guys. Get the BSN and just quit the whining about it already.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education, in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so?

I don't see this kind of immature bellyaching in other fields. Pharmacists, doctors and physical therapists all did their time in school with 4 years being the minimum.

As long as the LPNs and ADNs keep up their sobbing about having to go to school, it's no wonder doctors and other allied health professionals don't take us seriously. Suck it up, buttercups. You might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread.

If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it. Seriously, this whole debate is stale, stupid and plain EMBARRASSING. Reality WINS, guys. Get the BSN and just quit the whining about it already.

I'm all for education. I don't think there is an anti-intellectual tone. Frankly I am tired of the bullying, brow beating, and not so subtle insinuations that nurses with an ADN are...DUMBER and inferior. But there is plenty of academic elitism

For me, personally, my BSN added NOTHING to my competency as a bedside nurse with 20 years experience in critical care and trauma flight. I NEVER had a physician question my capabilities because I was "Only a ADN". Frankly they never asked. I am a extremely competent, highly skilled, professional who happens to have my BSN from an online program that taught me how to write a paper in the APA format. I am secure enough to not have to shove my schooling in everyone face to make me feel superior.

I personally RESENT the implication that those who do not have a BSN are somehow inferior even with 30 years of experience and specialty based certifications....because they are NOT inferior. I believe the ADN programs have been watered down in content by the very same academics that are promoting the BSN on purpose to reinforce their agenda.

But that is just my opinion.

Going forward...I think that there needs to be a single entry into nursing if only to STOP this incessant bickering and posturing about who's superior.

[Guest757854]

I'm all for education. I don't think there is an anti-intellectual tone. For me personally my BSN added NOTHING to my competency as a bedside nurse with 20 years experience in critical care and trauma flight. I NEVER had a physician question my capabilities becasue I was "Only a ADN". Frankly the never asked. I am a extremely competent, highly skilled, professional who happens to have my BSN from an online program that taught me how to write a paper in the APA format. I am secure enough to not have to shove my schooling in everyone face to make me feel superior.

I personally RESENT the implication that those who do not have a BSN are somehow inferior even with 30 years of experience and specialty based certifications....because they are NOT inferior. I believe the ADN programs have been watered down in content by the very same academics that are promoting the BSN on purpose to reinforce their agenda.

But that is just my opinion.

Going forward...I think that there needs to be a single entry into nursing if only to STOP this incessant bickering and posturing about who's superior.

AGREED!!!

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

As nurses, we should be committed to the spirit of scientific inquiry, critical thinking and all that stuff, right? We call it 'evidence based practice. Well, there is now a sufficient amount of compelling evidence that increased numbers of BSN nurses make a significant positive difference in clinical outcomes in acute care settings. American Association of Colleges of Nursing | Creating a More Highly Qualified Nursing Workforce I haven't come across any information that extends this finding to non-acute care environments.

Health care is increasingly complex. It's only logical that the educational preparation of clinical professionals has to keep pace. Since our professional regulators (BONs) are largely silent on this issue, employers have stepped up and adopted the IOM recommendations - just like they incorporate CDC guidelines or National Patient Safety Goals - as part of their efforts to improve care. It's not going to go away.

THIS ^^^

Since you ask.

It is a fallacy that BSN coursework is the same as ADN coursework. It is a fallacy that "statistics, team leading, and research" aren't useful things to learn if you want to be a "real" nurse. If you don't believe that in your heart of hearts, just look around AN at the questions and whines we get here.

"I am a new grad and just got oriented and the LPNs and CNAs are so mean. I don't know what to do with them." Think if maybe she'd had a semester focusing on leadership with some theory on team building and dynamics she might have at least a clue?

"I don't see why we can't just push air in the NG tube to check placement. Everybody says that's how they do it." Well, because there's a lot of research in the literature to indicate that the only way to know safely is by checking the pH, that's why. Read research much? No? Is the research you read on the net? How do you know what's reliable or not? Statistics aren't just for eggheads, they're critical for, well, critical thinking.

"I don't see why we have to learn all that stuff to be a bedside nurse. That's all I want to do." Look around your worksite. Do you see a lot of people in their late 50s and 60s still working on the floor at bedside? Why do you think that is?

I know that it's hard to imagine, but you might not want to be doing this until you retire. Why do you care? Well, suppose you work on a general medical floor and get entranced by cardiac rehabilitation after following a patient who did it. A job comes up in the department, hooray! Oops, BSN only. Or you find your heart drawn to helping underserved women in a public health clinic for high-risk pregnancy. Sorry, BSN only in public health. After five or six or twelve years as a staff nurse you have become a resource to new hires and your peers and you realize you have a gift for teaching. You see that a position in staff development has come open, and you are first in line at HR to apply. You got it.... BSN is the minimum. School nursing? BSN. Hurt your back and want to go for a job in case management? BSN. You discover you have a gift for asking, "Why do we do it this way?" and are amazed to find you want to look into jobs in management or nursing research.....BSN minimum. You are starting to get the picture now. Also, many, many practice settings give you a differential for BSN. Also, more and more nursing ads say, "BSN strongly preferred" or "required." No, I know, not all, but hey. One more factor.

[Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN]

I agree to an extent. The trouble is, in practice the balance of the classes that earn us a BSN don't necessarily help us to be more intellectual, or clinically advanced. That's what I've heard from others who have done it, and what I've observed as someone 3/4 of the way through an RN-BSN completion program. Some classes were helpful, no doubt. I took a Geriatrics class from an NP who is a textbook of knowledge. On the other hand, my nursing theory class...our faculty has a pet theory that they focused the whole class on. I managed an A from the class, but honestly I still can't articulate what the theory is.

I do wish that as a bachelor of *science*, the programs entailed more science and less philosophy.

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education, in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so?

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

You will find that nursing theory will mean more to you when you are an actual, like, nurse. But at least being aware that it exists and that different people see what you do in different ways can encourage you to think about how you see it, yourself. That, in turn, can influence how you go about doing your job, how you develop your career, and how you teach and care for others. It's not wasted fluff, it's about developing a deeper appreciation and understanding of the whole ball of wax.

Like I said, though, you probably have to be more mature in your professional growth before you appreciate it. You'll get there. In life, as in everything else, fortune favors the prepared mind.

[TraumaSurfer]

I haven't seen anyone call an ADN RN "dumb". These emotional arguments lose credibility. Some seem to believe things have been the same for 30 years and you have always done it that way, all is good. Medicine changes and the "good enough" attitude no longer cuts it. Doctors want professionals who can accept change and be part of a team caring for their patients. If the doctor isn't questioning you it could also be due to low expectations. I have seen RNs get upset when the physician wanted to talk directly to the allied health professional rather than passing on a message through the nurse. Other professionals with increased education levels are known to be open for trying and trialing new things. I have noticed a big difference in ICUs with all BSNs when it comes to reading extra materials before rounds and insisting on more staff education.

If you got NOTHING from the extra classes in the BSN program, chances are you won't get much from any other mandated education except for what YOU think is worthy. Thus you may miss out on alot of info because you have closed your mind because of the ADN vs BSN attitude. No it is not bullying when your unit managers and physicians want a group of professionals who have shown to be receptive to education.

[enuf_already]

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so? I don't see this kind of immature bellyaching in other fields. Pharmacists, doctors and physical therapists all did their time in school with 4 years being the minimum. As long as the LPNs and ADNs keep up their sobbing about having to go to school, it's no wonder doctors and other allied health professionals don't take us seriously. Suck it up, buttercups. You might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread. If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it. Seriously, this whole debate is stale, stupid and plain EMBARRASSING. Reality WINS, guys. Get the BSN and just quit the whining about it already.[/quote']

I don't find the idea of being more educated offensive at all. What I did find that at my age and at this point in my career, going back to school to obtain my BSN was a financial burden. One that I was willing to assume for job security but certainly not because of any increase in pay. Personal satisfaction was my main goal.

Although "only" a diploma RN, I kept up with articles, journals, seminars, and educational offerings through my workplace that kept me current in my practice. The core nursing classes did not teach me anything I had not already picked up with 30+ years of experience. I went in actually wanting and expecting to learn something but was rather disappointed that my major learning experience involved perfecting APA.

Maybe it's not so much the letters after a person's name as the amount of real life learning-something that can't always be learned in a book-that truly makes a great nurse.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I haven't seen anyone call an ADN RN "dumb".

right here.....Quote from mclennan

you might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread.

If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it.

Don't get me wrong. I think that BSN should be entry now. I think that in order to move forward we have to move upward.

I was cut from a different ADN/ASN cloth. I went to a University...my ADN program is now the ABSN program. I worked my behind off!! The online BSN program didn't add to my knowledge...it really didn't and much of it was covered in my ADN/ASN program many moons ago. I did it, it was easy and free. No complaints.

I do think the programs are purposefully being watered down....or standards are not being maintained one of the two for the grads are just not what they should be. I think even grntea will agree with me for some of the MSN programs online are NOT what they should be as far as academic standards. They are handing out the alphabet for minimal standards....like survey monkey for academic research requirements. Raise the education requirement but do not lower the academic standards.

Again this is just my humble opinion...which really isn't much.

[ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP]

I can't understand for the life of me why so many nurses find the idea of being more educated so offensive. The anti-intellectual tone found all over this forum is awkward and shameful. What in the world is wrong with more education, in any context or situation? What's the BIG PROBLEM with this profession evolving academically and intellectually? Why does that idea CHAFE so?

It isn't anti-intellectualism that is fueling this mentality, but finances. Most decent BSN programs are extremely expensive. I am attending a state school (BSN) and have had to pay thousands of dollars in checks. I am 22 without a house or child, so the burden of financing an education isn't as hard-felt as it would be if I were older with a home and mouths to feed.

I don't see this kind of immature bellyaching in other fields. Pharmacists, doctors and physical therapists all did their time in school with 4 years being the minimum.

Actually, for doctors, it is more like 8-12 years, and you cannot compare medicine to nursing as they are two different fields. Physical therapists HAVE groaned about getting a doctorate for quite sometime....maybe you haven't noticed it. I think requiring a doctorate for physical therapy is ridiculous, but apparently they also have to do many clinical hours to justify the hike in standards.

As long as the LPNs and ADNs keep up their sobbing about having to go to school, it's no wonder doctors and other allied health professionals don't take us seriously. Suck it up, buttercups. You might have to learn more stuff and be smarter, OH MY GOD THE HORROR. My employer pays BSNs more than ADNs, and that trend WILL spread.

But many places do not pay a BSN anymore than an ADN, or pay nickels and dimes in comparison. As for being "smarter", I doubt that a new grad BSN is anymore competent than the ADN with thirty, forty years of experience. To imply that ADN nurses are "dumber" is extremely offensive and unprofessional.

If being dumber and earning less money is your choice, do the world a favor and stop humiliating yourselves by complaining about it. Seriously, this whole debate is stale, stupid and plain EMBARRASSING. Reality WINS, guys. Get the BSN and just quit the whining about it already.

[nursejoed]

"You will find that nursing theory will mean more to you when you are an actual, like, nurse."

Sorry, I strongly disagree. Twenty plus years of nursing experience has taught me that most theories are more of a waste of time than I originally thought in nursing school.

[TraumaSurfer]

right here.....Quote from mclennan Don't get me wrong. I think that BSN should be entry now. I think that in order to move forward we have to move upward.

I was cut from a different ADN/ASN cloth. I went to a University...my ADN program is now the ABSN program. I worked my behind off!! The online BSN program didn't add to my knowledge...it really didn't and much of it was covered in my ADN/ASN program many moons ago. I did it, it was easy and free. No complaints.

I do think the programs are purposefully being watered down....or standards are not being maintained one of the two for the grads are just not what they should be. I think even grntea will agree with me for some of the MSN programs online are NOT what they should be as far as academic standards. They are handing out the alphabet for minimal standards....like survey monkey for academic research requirements. Raise the education requirement but do not lower the academic standards.

Again this is just my humble opinion...which really isn't much.

I missed that but out of the hundreds (1000s) of posts here, that is not too bad.

Actually, for doctors, it is more like 8-12 years, and you cannot compare medicine to nursing as they are two different fields. Physical therapists HAVE groaned about getting a doctorate for quite sometime....maybe you haven't noticed it. I think requiring a doctorate for physical therapy is ridiculous, but apparently they also have to do many clinical hours to justify the hike in standards.

It takes 4 years before medical school can even be considered.

Actually PTs have not been groaning too much or most shouldn't since it has been their education which has kept them in the reimbursement game and their education goes a long way when lobbying CMS in Washington DC. The old times with only a Bachelors degree might have felt a little displaced but the newer ones are proud of their professional standing and ability to have a 9 - 5 job often in their own office with a close working relationship with their MDs.

The excuses made here and viewed by other professionals who now must have a higher education are getting pretty laughable for the year 2014 where credibility and reimbursement are being measured for the definitions of "professionals".

Would you want a teacher with only a 2 year degree teaching your child? These professionals may need a Masters degree in some places and are still not paid very well considering their responsibility. Yeah it sucks if you think you got into a profession with relatively easy entry requirements and now higher education is becoming the norm. But, you chose health care. You could easily have gone into a profession which does not change very much like working on a road crew. Almost every profession is changing in some way. Try getting an entry level computer tech job with just an Associates. My accountant has a Masters degree. My auto mechanic has an Associates in auto tech and a Bachelors in business. I don't know of any attorney who just has an Associates degree. You can trust an attorney to save your license is needed and I bet you will look at their credentials. An online degree from some distant island may not be "good enough" even if they managed to pass the boards. What about doctors? Don't you look at where and what they did their fellowship in or got their specialty boards for your situation? Higher education is all around us.

I think the problem with the education as it is now is that it has tried to satisfy all the whiners with their own agendas. This includes the unions. Now nursing has a fragmented mess for higher education. Pick a path and strive to make it better. Trying to be on both sides of the tracks does not make for a progressive profession.