WHY does a B.S. + RN not equal BSN

quinnie · Jul 27, 2011

I am in a similar situation and currently taking classes in an RN-BSN program. Not because I particularly want another Bachelors, but because I want to keep my job, and unfortunately, hospitals nationwide will start phasing out ASN just like they are doing to LPNs. If anyone tells you differently, they are a) in denial or b) lying. I have a BA in art with a minor in psychology, which meant diddly-squat when I got my nursing degree. I went to school, got my ASN, got my RN and then was asked in my interview when (not if) I planned to continue to pursue the BSN. My hospital, thankfully, has tuition reimbursement so when I enrolled and got accepted for the RN-BSN program, I promptly asked what, exactly, was the difference. My answer essentially was "more nursing classes + research." That's it. Not clinical experience, but reading and writing. Which, I suppose, makes sense. A bachelors in psychology means you focused on computer science, not nursing. Yes, the ASN, in my opinion, prepares you equally from a clinical standpoint. The good thing for you is that, like me, you will have a great deal of classes transfer over. I only have to take 12 classes, all nursing, to finish my BSN. So, when you graduate, find a hospital that will help pay for tuition reimbursement and start taking classes before you lose the motivation, then be happy when you can say how well-rounded you are on your resume. Or, find an RN-MSN program...but that's another story.

finn55 · Jul 28, 2011

I'm not trying to be argumentative here...I'm asking a serious question because I really don't understand. I also didn't post this over in the ADN vs BSN thread because it's not nearly as active. I also searched for answers (so don't skewar me), and while I found others who asked if it's the same and were simply told 'no it's not'...but I couldn't find an answer to WHY it's not. So here it goes...
I have two B.S. degrees..one in Speech Therapy, and the other in Computer Science (don't ask..life detours keep life interesting).
I am now purusuing a nursing career. My mother was a nurse for 40 years. I keep hearing how I really NEED a BSN to move up in the field. But here's the rub - I have no desire to go back for a THIRD BS degree. I have general education coming out the wazoo. At the most I'm willing to go from an RN-MSN program provided I get tuition help from my employer as I've had enough education expenses thankyouverymuch. But another BS degree...Really?
I am also being told, here and in other places, that a B.S. degree in another field, plus an RN license does NOT equal a BSN. I really don't get that. I have the general education from a 4 year degree (and then some), and I will (God willing) have the RN education which basically encompasses the last 2 years of a BSN program (and the program I will be going through actual has MORE clinical hours than the BSN programs locally). So, 2+2 = BSN in my mind. So why doesn't it?
And don't tell me it's because of this elusive Magnet Status either. Because two of our local hospitals have Magnet status and they not only HIRE ADN's, they RUN hospital based diploma programs which spit out wonderfully prepared diploma nurses...who then get hired at said hospitals. So, the theory that Magnet Status hospitals don't hire anything less than BSN's....well, I'm confused on that too because I keep hearing it here - but the reality seems quite different - at least where I live. Feel free to answer that for me too....
So what I am hearing here is...get your BSN. If you get a diploma or ADN first and you already have a BS degree - then you need to do an RN-BSN program which will include your general education...which i ALREADY have! So, what, I take one or two bridge classes and call it a BSN? It not only seems like a money grab from the Universities, but also a semantic technicality by everyone else. What am I missing?
Please, someone - kindly- explain to me the difference between a BS degree in ANYTHING in CONJUNCTION with an RN license...and a BSN. I really want to know.

I am an ADN who has a BS in Psychology. Not a day went by that I didn't use that Psych background along with my nursing. I've seen way too many BSN's who love to push paper, but not do hands-on care. (Please don't skewer me, either! I'm just expressing my opinion. :nurse: )

MrChicagoRN, RN · Jul 28, 2011

Please, someone - kindly- explain to me the difference between a BS degree in ANYTHING in CONJUNCTION with an RN license...and a BSN. I really want to know.

As others have written, the BSN specifically covers nursing theory and prepares one for entry into the field. As you progress in your career, some employers may want a BSN, others will be satisfied with any Bachelors.

If you decide to go for a nursing specific degree, I'd recommend either an RN-->MSN program, or a MSN generalist entry program (which requires a BA/BS)

Moogie · Jul 28, 2011

As others have written, the BSN specifically covers nursing theory and prepares one for entry into the field. As you progress in your career, some employers may want a BSN, others will be satisfied with any Bachelors.

There have been a number of articles written about ADN grads who have had previous bachelor's or higher degrees who have not been able to get hired by hospitals that hire only BSNs. Unfortunately, hospitals that are inundated with new grad applicants often don't look past the nursing education of those applicants. In some places, ADN applications don't get a second look and the recruiter isn't even aware of previous experience in health care or previous education. It isn't right but it's reality.

Years ago, I knew a clinical educator at a major medical center who had an ADN and a bachelor's in education. He had been a teacher before becoming an RN. Today he would need a master's in nursing (MSN, MN, MS in nursing, MA in nursing) for that kind of position. More recently, I knew a professor at a state university who had a master's in education (not in nursing, not in nursing education) as well as an educational doctorate (EdD). He had to go back to school to get a master's in nursing to continue teaching in a school of nursing. Doesn't make a great deal of sense, but again, he did what he had to do in order to keep his job.

Palexander3512 · Mar 2, 2012

I wasnt able to read all the post but I am curious...does a associates in science (I was a nursing major) plus an RN degree give you a ADN? if not, why its the same classes...

caliotter3 · Mar 2, 2012

In simplistic terms, you have to meet the requirements set forth by the educational institution in order to be awarded their BSN.

MN-Nurse, ASN, RN · Mar 2, 2012

I wasnt able to read all the post but I am curious...does a associates in science (I was a nursing major) plus an RN degree give you a ADN? if not, why its the same classes...

"RN degree"?

No such animal. You get a nursing degree from an edumacational type institution and an RN license from another whaddayacallit.

Palexander3512 · Mar 2, 2012

O lol I meant RN diploma but in any case in Philly we have a lot of ASN to BSN programs and I always thought with my AS in Science as a Pre-Nursing major combined with an LPN that I would qualify for an ASN-BSN program. I'm kinda confused as to how you'd go about getting an ASN if an AS in Science isn't the same thing?

DoGoodThenGo · Mar 3, 2012

O lol I meant RN diploma but in any case in Philly we have a lot of ASN to BSN programs and I always thought with my AS in Science as a Pre-Nursing major combined with an LPN that I would qualify for an ASN-BSN program. I'm kinda confused as to how you'd go about getting an ASN if an AS in Science isn't the same thing?

Let me break this down for you like a fraction. *LOL*

State boards of nursing award LPN/LVN and RN *licenses* and that is what makes one a professional nurse.

Educational facilities award degrees and or diplomas and if properly accredited by the state graduates are eligible to sit for the board exams. Until one passes such you are a graduate nurse, or whatever one wishes to call it but in no way a "Registered" anything because that only comes with a license.

Technically associate degrees in appplied science (A.A.S) and associate degrees in a major (ADN for instance, Associate Degree in Nursing), whilst both two years in length (normally) do not always have the same content.

A.A.S degrees are considered "technical" degrees in that by most state education board rules certain course distribution requirements for general lower college courses are waived and one is allowed to spend more time concentrating on whatever the major happens to be. This could be great from a student's point of view if they really want to focus on the matter at hand, but such degrees can be very limited post graduation. Because many of the courses are related or based upon the major in question they have no equal at a four year college or university. This quite often means the classes will not transfer of if they do it would be as excess free electives.

ADN and other "Associate in Science" degrees are designed to offer more four year college prep work so that one can go onto and earn a four year college and or master's degree. In such cases unlike the above course credits tend to to focus on the broad distribution required for classes to be eligible to transfer.

In many ADN and some AAS colleges you often find compact agreements with local four year schools to promise acceptance of credits to make transfers post graduation eaiser. Often even within the same school system such arrangements are made.

If you want an associates degree in nursing (which is what one assumes you mean by "ASN", you must apply to a program, be accepted, complete and graduate. Should you have previous course work upon formal acceptance to the school you will have to sit down with the registrar/nursing department to see what classes transfer and if any will met the requirements for nursing.

As for being admitted to an ADN/AAS to BSN program all the ones I've ever heard of only require one have graduated from an accredited (state) nursing program, passed the NCLEX and so forth. You just have to look at the entry requirements and see if anything is lacking from your previous nursing program.

Good Morning, Gil · Mar 5, 2012

I agree with you completely. Most of the other BSN classes that aren't "core" are just fluff anyway. In some of them you may learn a thing or two [i've looked at the curriculum of some of them, and I really don't want to spend my money on 3 credits of nothing lol], but nothing that's really going to change your practice. I study and read on my own, so I'm pretty confident I learn by keeping myself current in my practice, and by attending lectures, and by working lol (run on sentence much? lol). I don't have anything against the BSN degree, definitely the best way to go if you're a first degree student and can afford it (as many hospitals prefer bsns, and it's just easier to get it done, meet ppl your own age, etc), but the accelerated bsn degree was just too expensive for me, twice as much as the diploma program, and didn't have near as many clinical hours (actual hospital clinical hours, not "community" or "sim").

My diploma program covered leadership, as well, and ethics, and was very happy with the theory and clinical component. Half my program was clinical, and the other half was theory, worked very well. Ethics wasn't a course in and of itself, but was intertwined into each course. Prepared me well, and I had a good training period on my present unit, as well.

My plan in the future is to do an RN-MSN program designed for people just like us (that have previous BA/BS degrees); you can bypass spending extra time/money on the bsn courses; you just take 2 extra courses or so, and onto the MSN... :).

Just wanted to make you aware that those programs do exist: loyola university has one, for instance.

sistasoul · Mar 5, 2012

I also have a bachelors in business/finance as well as an ADN. I am currently taking upper level nursing courses towards my BSN. The thing that frustrates me is that the nursing management class required is similar to all of the management classes I have had to take in the past. Also the nursing politics and policy class is similar to the governmaent and public policy class I have had to take in the past. The other classes are new though- holistic nursing and community health. Even though I have writted a LOT of research papers in the past this nursing research class is also a new way of looking at research. The pathophsiology class is wonderful as is the health assessment class. Families and culture was also an interesting class. I feel your frustration even though there is some new knowledge to be gained. Most of it will not help as a bedside nurse but it is a stepping stone to other careers away from the bedside as well as good information towards a masters.

chuckster, ADN, BSN, RN, EMT-B · Mar 6, 2012

I agree with you completely. Most of the other BSN classes that aren't "core" are just fluff anyway. In some of them you may learn a thing or two [i've looked at the curriculum of some of them, and I really don't want to spend my money on 3 credits of nothing lol], but nothing that's really going to change your practice. I study and read on my own, so I'm pretty confident I learn by keeping myself current in my practice, and by attending lectures, and by working lol (run on sentence much? lol). I don't have anything against the BSN degree, definitely the best way to go if you're a first degree student and can afford it (as many hospitals prefer bsns, and it's just easier to get it done, meet ppl your own age, etc), but the accelerated bsn degree was just too expensive for me, twice as much as the diploma program, and didn't have near as many clinical hours (actual hospital clinical hours, not "community" or "sim").
My diploma program covered leadership, as well, and ethics, and was very happy with the theory and clinical component. Half my program was clinical, and the other half was theory, worked very well. Ethics wasn't a course in and of itself, but was intertwined into each course. Prepared me well, and I had a good training period on my present unit, as well.
My plan in the future is to do an RN-MSN program designed for people just like us (that have previous BA/BS degrees); you can bypass spending extra time/money on the bsn courses; you just take 2 extra courses or so, and onto the MSN... :).
Just wanted to make you aware that those programs do exist: loyola university has one, for instance.

There are quite a number of schools that offer RN-MSN programs for bachelors degree holders in other fields. In my area (SE PA), we have at least three: Drexel, Widener and Jefferson. There are others with on-line programs - Georgetown and Norwich are two that I'm aware of but I'm certain that there are many others. The drawback, as you mention, is that non-BSN's are required to take 3 or 4 MSN "bridge" classes, which are billed at the graduate tuition rate. In some cases (mine for instance), it was less expensive and not much more more time-consuming to do an RN-BSN program and then apply to the MSN program. The bridge classes would have run $10 - $12k and taken 3 semesters. I will complete my BSN at the end of this year, having started in the second summer session last year and the cost will be under $7k. Going this route, not only do you save money but you get to add even more letters after your name.