I'm not trying to be argumentative here...I'm asking a serious question because I really don't understand. I also didn't post this over in the ADN vs BSN thread because it's not nearly as active. I also searched for answers (so don't skewar me), and while I found others who asked if it's the same and were simply told 'no it's not'...but I couldn't find an answer to WHY it's not. So here it goes...
I have two B.S. degrees..one in Speech Therapy, and the other in Computer Science (don't ask..life detours keep life interesting).
I am now purusuing a nursing career. My mother was a nurse for 40 years. I keep hearing how I really NEED a BSN to move up in the field. But here's the rub - I have no desire to go back for a THIRD BS degree. I have general education coming out the wazoo. At the most I'm willing to go from an RN-MSN program provided I get tuition help from my employer as I've had enough education expenses thankyouverymuch. But another BS degree...Really?
I am also being told, here and in other places, that a B.S. degree in another field, plus an RN license does NOT equal a BSN. I really don't get that. I have the general education from a 4 year degree (and then some), and I will (God willing) have the RN education which basically encompasses the last 2 years of a BSN program (and the program I will be going through actual has MORE clinical hours than the BSN programs locally). So, 2+2 = BSN in my mind. So why doesn't it?
And don't tell me it's because of this elusive Magnet Status either. Because two of our local hospitals have Magnet status and they not only HIRE ADN's, they RUN hospital based diploma programs which spit out wonderfully prepared diploma nurses...who then get hired at said hospitals. So, the theory that Magnet Status hospitals don't hire anything less than BSN's....well, I'm confused on that too because I keep hearing it here - but the reality seems quite different - at least where I live. Feel free to answer that for me too....
So what I am hearing here is...get your BSN. If you get a diploma or ADN first and you already have a BS degree - then you need to do an RN-BSN program which will include your general education...which i ALREADY have! So, what, I take one or two bridge classes and call it a BSN? It not only seems like a money grab from the Universities, but also a semantic technicality by everyone else. What am I missing?
Please, someone - kindly- explain to me the difference between a BS degree in ANYTHING in CONJUNCTION with an RN license...and a BSN. I really want to know.
Coming from a Army infantry combat brigade I was under the impression I'd left the ego and bravado behind. Unfortunately, this has proven an ignorant assumption. I've met (many) Generals who put less emphasis on the letters beside their name.
Anyways here is a brief synopsis of what I've learned.
ASN and BSN differences primarily include several miscellaneous credits. Let's face it, no matter how you slice it, to get any bachelor's degree you need 130ish credits. I took yoga, fencing, water exercise, and life skills†among others. This really shaped me. I had an extremely difficult time getting onboard taking nonsense classes so, in order to maintain my sanity, I took additional science courses. One year gen chem, organic chemistry, biochem, microbiology, and genetics. Believe it or not I had to have a long talk with the program director to get her to apply over 2 years in additional science credits as electives instead of taking checkers 102.
After working as nurse I can't believe how many, BSN and ASN, programs do not require college level chemistry outside of non-major courses. These classes are ridiculous and I don't see how an advisor would allow anyone to pigeon hole their credits in this manner, but this is another issue entirely. Also many programs lack college algebra further compounding the issue ensuring you'd have to essentially start your math over in order to meet upper level science prerequisites if you decide to better yourself.
BSN specific courses were essentially an expansion of a condensed overview†class taken during my ASN. Management, public health, research, and then statistics. Most, if not all, of your classes are derivatives of these. Then there are several courses that will basically revisit everything you did in your ASN, courses like assessment and theory. I found these were identical to my ASN courses and this really made me rethink the value of this degree.
All in all I'll tell you what the difference is.
Your hospital is in better shape for magnet status. What does this mean for you? Great question, when you figure it out let me know. I have yet to meet a patient or family member that has chosen my facility based on this. The only people who even know what it is work in the industry and, if they've researched it, realize what little it actually does. There are some funding implications, but I've seen none of it on the floor.
Transition programs are an extraordinary business venture, especially if your facility has any affiliation with an educational institution. They pay you and then you pay them so they'll keep paying you, got it. I'm aware some hospitals will give you a pay bump, this is great. Unfortunately in my state, as with many others, this is not the case. Outside of the 5 year contract they make you sign when you're hired stating you will get your BSN or be fired, the motivation is nonexistent. In what world is a new grad BSN better than a 5 year vet? Mine, evidently.
You're another day older and deeper in debt. Once you have the mortgage, car payment, student loans, and Jr. on the way your mobility is severely diminished. Financial liability, coupled with a reduced chance you'll defect as you age, creates an excellent control mechanism. This is an effective short term plan to get a few more years from your staff even if they're unhappy. Unfortunately, with many studies placing nursing burnout around five years, it apparently does little for longevity.
Personal development. If this is your only interest please see my above paragraph on science courses. I learned infinitely more about pharmacology and everything in general, literally everything, taking these classes than any class in the transition curriculum. The research courses were interesting, but I promise you'll never learn as much as you'd learn in an upper level science course. Again, take courses for majors! Yes they are more difficult, but you'll be taking classes with future pharmacists and physicians. Please tell me, how can it be a bad thing? I promise you'll get much more respect from that mean resident†if they find out you had the same organic chemistry lab professor. Many of these issues are from the shear fact that they know most nurses take easier courses and it pissed them off every day of the semester.
Before the flame war between begins let me don my armor and preface this post with a your experience may vary†clause. To be honest, I hope it does. I am extremely pro education, however taking classes to take classes sends smoke out my ears. Also, for those of you who mention a reduction in errors between the two degrees please cite your source. I've heard and seen this posted before, but I haven't had the opportunity to review the data.
Specializes in psych, addictions, hospice, education.
I was able to shorten the time I spent in my BSN because I had a minor in science from my prior degree. Nursing requires lots of science courses. At least it did in the program I went-through, as well as the 3 in which I've taught.
I hold a Bachelor's in science and an ADN. I feel as if completing the BSN would be all online and easy for me. The problem is, I can't picture myself in a different nursing career. Managing a group of nurses looks like a nightmare to me... so many different personalities and constant turnover. In my opinion, the nursing profession needs to require psych classes that teach nurses how to get along, manage stress and work together. All of these theory courses are not going to help us when the nursing staff refuses to collaborate and is constantly back-stabbing. I've seen so many of my classmates leave the floor after only four years because they can't put up with the crap anymore. They are willing to take a slight pay cut to come to the ambulatory setting.
A BSN isn't a management degree, nor is it for that purpose. It's the base for nursing now. Nursing exists in hundreds of fields beyond the floor, and yes the floor sucks, and it sucked before Obamacare further screwed up nursing ratios.
If you're thinking about your BSN, get it, it's a great base for the thousands of other fields in nursing.
What we really need is for our seasoned RNs to be used as mentors/teachers at the end of their careers. I've learned way more by observing experienced nurses than I've learned in any classroom. Writing paper after paper is busy work and it teaches me nothing (the science portion of the program is completed in the ADN).
The bottom line is that big education with all it's angles and players do not benefit by considering having a Bachelor's Degree plus an ADN being equitable to a BSN. And if you wonder why schools and those affiliated with them are desperate to funnel more students through their doors, take a look at these facts:
"200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012).
"For the past 40 years, institutions of higher learning have been relentlessly replacing professors on the tenure track with contingent faculty, typically part-timers, who cost a whole lot less" (The Weekly Standard, Nov. 16, 2015).
"Hard Times on Campus - Declining Enrollment Means Declining Revenue For Colleges" (Philadelphia Inquirer, Jan. 31, 2016)
Nurses are the most prevalent professionals in most healthcare facilities and those driving the BSN push; who are mostly all affiliated with academia, see it as a way to ensure the future existence of their departments and positions. And as far as hospitals wanting more BSN nurses for magnet status, that is another money making scheme. If one sifts through all the corporate jargon, they will find that the minimum requirements for magnet status are the same as what it takes to pass a JACHO inspection. The hospital pays the ANA thousands of dollars for this supposed seal of approval so they can qualify for large government stipends. What many magnet and those trying to attain magnet status hospitals in my area are doing is leasing space to universities who will run RN-BSN programs right on the hospital campus. The hospital is then telling its nurses that they must earn a BSN in 3 years or risk termination. Tjhis is just one example of one hand washes the other with this scheme.
zack1a
32 Posts
Coming from a Army infantry combat brigade I was under the impression I'd left the ego and bravado behind. Unfortunately, this has proven an ignorant assumption. I've met (many) Generals who put less emphasis on the letters beside their name.
Anyways here is a brief synopsis of what I've learned.
ASN and BSN differences primarily include several miscellaneous credits. Let's face it, no matter how you slice it, to get any bachelor's degree you need 130ish credits. I took yoga, fencing, water exercise, and life skills†among others. This really shaped me. I had an extremely difficult time getting onboard taking nonsense classes so, in order to maintain my sanity, I took additional science courses. One year gen chem, organic chemistry, biochem, microbiology, and genetics. Believe it or not I had to have a long talk with the program director to get her to apply over 2 years in additional science credits as electives instead of taking checkers 102.
After working as nurse I can't believe how many, BSN and ASN, programs do not require college level chemistry outside of non-major courses. These classes are ridiculous and I don't see how an advisor would allow anyone to pigeon hole their credits in this manner, but this is another issue entirely. Also many programs lack college algebra further compounding the issue ensuring you'd have to essentially start your math over in order to meet upper level science prerequisites if you decide to better yourself.
BSN specific courses were essentially an expansion of a condensed overview†class taken during my ASN. Management, public health, research, and then statistics. Most, if not all, of your classes are derivatives of these. Then there are several courses that will basically revisit everything you did in your ASN, courses like assessment and theory. I found these were identical to my ASN courses and this really made me rethink the value of this degree.
All in all I'll tell you what the difference is.
Before the flame war between begins let me don my armor and preface this post with a your experience may vary†clause. To be honest, I hope it does. I am extremely pro education, however taking classes to take classes sends smoke out my ears. Also, for those of you who mention a reduction in errors between the two degrees please cite your source. I've heard and seen this posted before, but I haven't had the opportunity to review the data.