What a coincidence. . .every single student nurse who shadows me. . .

netglow, ASN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

Yes, it's true. I remember back when I did my prereqs every prenursing student I met said those very things.

OB-nurse2013, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

Ouch! Pretty harsh on that one, Reserve judgement please.
My 2 year program started with 88 students 18 graduated, 100% nclex pass rate, In testing by ATI (that also tests bachelors and masters programs) i scored in the 99th percentile in all my exams except for two that were 94,95. In clinicals we worked along side bsn and msn students and left them in the dust, our preceptors told us we kicked their butts. So far every one of my classmates has killed the nclex in 75 questions. frankly it was way easier than school exams.

Well thats the point. If you work that hard for a degree then don't you think you deserve to have BSN and if you have to work that hard to be a nurse then yes why not improve and expand nursing so it can get the respect it deserves? Also never was I or my classmates blown away by any ADN students-not saying we are better-just that we are most definately not worse. Also my school had 100% NCLEX pass rate for our last 2 graduating classes and guess what? We actually retain our students and lose less then 10% of our students. I really don't even know how you or any hospital would compare you to MSN students since they are doing something very different and generally work with a preceptor not the unit nurses as we did or do.

pockunit, ADN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

I wouldn't. I don't. I'm not. Sorry I couldn't have shadowed with you!

Stephalump · Jul 28, 2012

yes! totally. the last month i worked in the ed, i had tons of students. some made these statements and they were taken as "very snotty" by most of the nurses. i don't know why but nurses, more than many, seem to crave recognition. (maybe because we get a lot of non-recognition from docs, other nurses, and patients and administration...). i think a discussion before heading out to clinical may be helpful...just to remind students that what they say that is all about them...can sometimes come off as "all about someone else" it's a good rule of thumb for all of us. sue is about to be a nurse, which means she needs to learn to focus out...and get beyond her ideas and consider others. i am guilty of being that student. 12 years ago, i had to do an evening in a nicu. omg, it was dark and warm, and as a student i couldn't really touch the babies. i don't love babies. i struggled to stay awake and i struggled to find questions to ask that nurse, because frankly, i did not want to be there! i think i did finally end up saying something like, "yes this area really never grabbed my interest, to which the nurse raised up her eyebrows...i felt like a total jerk. it was a real eye opener for me...and i went on tons more unwanted rotations but never ever said that kind of thing again!

well, this is a great lesson for me! i don't have any concrete aspirations yet, per sae, but when i do, i think i'll keep my mouth shut on about them on my clinical rotations :)

Jahna · Jul 28, 2012

Prior to explaining how I formulated my plan, let me also point out the fact that I am only an ASN graduate and appreciate proper grammar paired with a large vocabulary. I believe that some situations are satisfactory for molding a competent new RN, however not every person is in the favorable situation, and you cannot educate a person to higher levels of maturity or teach them experience. In my own defense, I only partially validate the statement about registered nurses and required entry level education. So here are my reasons for my hopes and dreams:
~My love for the delivery of babies...
~After I started nursing school, in my first semester, I read a list of the various specialties possible in the career of nursing and trauma flight nurse immediately caught may attention.
Since I am already half-way done with my BSN, why not go for it? My associates degree put me in roughly $30,000 of loan debt, my bachelors degree is not going to be free, and at this rate in an effort to actually profit from my paycheck, I have calculated that if I remain a life-time student, my six month grace period from the government will never end and maybe I could just avoid giving them all their money at least until I die.
So I have defended myself, let the beatings begin! (kidding, seriously, it's not cool to "eat the young".....is it?)

Lilarox, I also feel like I have to defend myself. I, too, am an ASN grad and I am currently about halfway through to my BSN. I took this route because the thought of graduating with a mountain of debt produced way too much anxiety for me.

As an aside though, I've met quite a few LPNs who are far better prepared, knowledgeable and competent than their BSN counterparts. So while the BSN sounds like some kind of holy grail, I resent when people try to diminish someone else's accomplishment or reasons for taking the path that they did.

To the OP, while in Nursing school, I took a job as a float pool Unit Clerk and I worked on literally every floor and unit of the hospital. It was then that I decided that I wanted to be either an ER or ICU nurse. The higher patient acuity, level of critical thinking required, and the overall camaraderie of the nurses on these floors was (and still is) very attractive to me. I ended up working in the ER after graduation and will continue to do so once I complete my BSN.

Stephalump · Jul 28, 2012

I agree that a bachelors should be the entry point (yes, grandfather people in) because that will also show the world that nursing is a respected profession and not a 2 year program that anyone can do. It is like we are dumbing down nursing at a time when being a nurse is more challenging than ever.
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Wow. I don't even know how to respond to that without violating terms of service at the moment. I'd go back to studying, but I probably don't even need to bother in my way too easy, dumbed down program.

Scarlettz, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

I never had an interest in ED or ICU. Psychiatric nursing is the reason I went into nursing. I wouldn't mind Medsurg or LTC. Honestly, I will work in almost any area. I just want a job. They are so hard to come by here.

I think most of the people in my ADN program feel the same way. Of course there are a few people that want ICU or ED. To each their own. I know I don't want to do it.. at least not until I have some years of experience under my belt.

I am intrigued by the NP profession. I'd go on if money permitted. But, I am okay with starting my BSN this fall. I will look into NP with experience and money.

HM-8404, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

I agree with what a previous poster said. Some jobs that people want require an RN license, CRNA, FA, and NP. They are just taking the route required to achieve their career goals. I would imagine many CRNA students would not become an RN if it were not required, like the PA program. I would think many CRNA's knew they wanted that job before they attended nursing school or while in school, they didn't just discover it after passing the NCLEX. I am 48 yrs old so getting my ADN, then BSN, then going to a CRNA program is out of the question. At my age I have too many financial responsibilities to quit work for the duration of the CRNA program. That is something someone much younger can do.

I do support the BSN as the entry level point for nursing. Not only would it weed out those just looking for a job they can jump into as quickly as possible, it would also make the argument about nursing being underpaid when the counter-argument is no longer, "You can go from high school student to RN in two years. Not much more time than it took my niece to get her Cosmetology license."

lilarox · Jul 28, 2012

Honestly, this reminds of a situation I encountered with my sister a few years ago and I think it serves as a good analogy to my point. Here is the example:

My sister was pregnant for a few months (cannot remember exactly how long, I only know she was not yet 7 months), and I was a mother of two toddlers. So like every normal pregnant woman her body changes were a hot topic.

Her, "I am so sick of feeling sick to my stomach every day", Me, "Oh, you have just started this fun journey, you have (x) amount of weeks left before that goes away, usually its the worst in about (x) amount of weeks, you'll see."

Her, "Ugh, I did not sleep at all last night, I think I had to wake up and pee 4 times, I am so tired." Me, "Oh, you just wait til the baby is huge and is always squishing your bladder, 4 times will seem like nothing."

Her, "Wow, I have been pregnant forever, I am just so ready to meet my baby outside of my belly." Me, "Well the best time in pregnancy is usually between 3-6 months, this is as easy as it will ever get, you need to enjoy it while you can, you might miss being pregnant once you deliver."

Her, "I don't know how I am going to get everything done that I need to do before the baby is born." Me, "Pfft, talk to me about obstacles in your path once the baby is out. The second you start something the baby cries, just wait."

So it went, until one day she blatantly told me that just because I had already "been, there, done that" didn't mean she didn't deserve a chance to experience things and go through the motions and feelings of each current step. She told me she would "get there" eventually and understand the inner workings of an experienced mother when she got there. So even though I thought I was being a good big sister and trying to prepare her in ways I wasn't prepared (hopefully to alleviate some unnecessary stress in life", I had to step back and realize how right she was. So she journeyed through the experience and once she was on the other side she was able to look back and laugh at herself for buying the newest greatest gadget that was useless and collected dust even though I told her it would be a waste of money!

Student nurses lack the wisdom of experience, not intelligence or common sense. This is where the feared and respected seasoned nurse comes in to guide us along until we get there.

OnlybyHisgraceRN, ASN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

I see nothing wrong with students only wanting to work in a certain area. I have problem when students put all their eggs in one basket. You may not get ICU or ED right out of school, but you atleast need a plan B, C,D and so on. I worked as a CNA for three years, then LPN for 2 years, and landed an ICU job out of RN school. I wanted to do L and D but ICU came first. I was very blessed to have this job and opportunity. I don't have a goal to become a CRNA, I want to get a MSNed.However, I don't dislike my co-workers who work in ICU only for CRNA, that is the step they have to take to reach their goals. Why is that so bad? Nurses come and go....

nurseprnRN, BSN, RN · Jul 28, 2012

i will leave the entry into practice for a profession discussion for another thread, though it is oh-so-tempting.

i find it difficult to get worked up about this one, though. students with a definite (though naive) idea of what they will be doing thing is nothing new. when i was faculty, we had about 95% of our students dead certain sure they would be "mother-baby" or pediatrics nurses. dyad care, as opposed to the separate l&d and postpartum care of before, was a new and daring concept, and attractive to new grads. this was and is, of course, because it wasn't perceived (from outside the profession) as ever needing to deal with actual sick people (hah). pediatrics was familiar to anyone who had ever done babysitting. students largely didn't know any more about what nursing was than they do now...even though they thought they did. some things never change.

since this was before "er" on tv, not too many students wanted to do er, which was perceived as scary and messy and needing difficult skills like, oh, cpr and ability to work in crisis mode, with people who might actually die. it was also only early-on in the advent of nps and crnas, and those nurses were well-known to have had many (not one or two) years of excellent, high-powered work, and graduate school, and that wasn't something that most students were interested in. mother-baby/pedi all the way, hooray! and look around: most of those 95% of students are not doing what they planned. then again, who is? not i, that's for sure. i'm not unhappy about it at all, but it definitely wasn't what i planned.

ten-fifteen years ago carole hathaway and dr doug had students aiming for er, and that specialty had a significant uptick in interest (and ers rarely hire new grads... disillusionment in tv reality strikes again). so now the trend is for crna and np. this too shall pass in favor of heaven knows what future specialty.

in the meantime, though, as in the past, the vast majority of new grads will not all become (x), because, well, there aren't enough spots for that many (x) and the vast majority of nursing jobs are in bedside care of one kind or another. that's where most of them are needed. we crusty old bats aren't getting any younger... somebody has to take care of us and ours, and they better darned well be good at it.

Wrench Party · Jul 28, 2012

I was in the workforce a good while before starting nursing school, and understanding the economic

realities that exist and competition for new grad RNs in my area, I'll take the first good paying job I can get.

If it's in a specialty I'd prefer, even better.

We all still have a lot to learn as students, and I can't imagine telling a seasoned bedside nurse

"gee I want to be an NP after a few years" or "bedside nursing is so boring".

I would never live to tell about it if that ever got back to my old-school clinical instructors.