Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

[jive turkey]

Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

[10GaugeNeedles, BSN]

5 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

REALLY? wow I have not met one.

Yeah. Really. I've worked across the country on 5 different states. Meet lots of people. The views are DIVERSE let me tell ya. 

[SmilingBluEyes]

I know a ton of Trump and Biden supporters across many states who not once ever said that he (Trump) created the vaccine.....

This is stunning to me.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

2 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Those 640,000 people aren't uniform. Almost all of them were chronically ill, overweight, and or 45 yo or older. I think it would be helpful if the narrative machine acknowledged that risk from severe illness was not uniform. All in the high risk categories should be vaccinated for their own protection. But, that is not what we hear. We hear all people should be vaccinated with equal consideration. This is not the case.

We haven't gotten rid of the flu with vaccination. So why do we think a valid strategy is to get rid of covid altogether through vaccination? Shouldn't we focus on the protection of the highest risk? That seems more reasonable. It would certainly lend credibility to the vaccination argument as a whole.

But the demographics of hospitalizations and severe illness has changed:Is the Delta Variant Making Younger Adults ‘Sicker, Quicker’? - The New York Times (nytimes.com)  Doctors have been warning the public for weeks that Delta is different and less discriminating about age.  Another lie you keep insisting on is that vaccine advocates think "a valid strategy is to get rid of covid altogether through vaccinations."  Wrong.  We are not that stupid.  Just look at the cases in Provincetown event.  They occurred in a very heavily vaccinated area (Dr. Jah has computed about 1,000 cases came from the cluster F*(k.  BUT only 8 people were hospitalized and none died.And you know what they had 1,000 cases?  Because people who just don't get it thought they would dispense with masking and social distancing.  So, as many of us have said, vaccine is only one leg in the footstool.  It's the best but it's not everything as those people learned in Provincetown.   Fauci warned us but nobody listened:   

ichard Besser, a former acting director of CDC, said, "You don't want people to misconstrue the expiration of [CDC's social distancing] guidelines as a recommendation that it's OK to go back to your normal life, because it's not."

Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, during an interview with CNN on Thursday warned state leaders against "leapfrogging" critical milestones outlined in the White House's latest guidance for safely reopening, noting that he already has seen some states and cities start to scale back Covid-19 mitigation measures while not adhering to the guidance. "Obviously you could get away with that, but you're making a really significant risk," he said.

Fauci said the new guidance suggests a way for states to reopen with "a continuity that's safe, that's prudent, and that's careful." He added, "There's no doubt in my mind that when you pull back mitigation, you're going to start seeing cases crop up here and there," and if states aren't "able to handle them, you're going to see another peak, a spike, and then you almost have to turn the clock back to go back to mitigation."

Now I give layman a pass on their stupidity but any nurse should know that any one strategy is NOT going to give almost complete protection.

[guest1163268]

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

You are a poster child for what is wrong in this debate. This isn't about the science or data for you and allot of people like you. What if you met a Biden supporter who refused the vaccine because Trump was instrumental in developing it? I've met a number of those people. 

They are similarly idiots, if they are unwilling to do the research! I don't care who you support. Idiotic thinking is just that and I am terrified by them. For all my size and strength, I am no match for a lethal microbe. So let's be cautious! 

It's just that more people are right leaning and trump supporters who listen to the nonsense! 

Evidenced by the current states experiencing the whichever wave this is now. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

4 hours ago, jive turkey said:

Amen.  People are forgetting about the vast number of people that don't even have access to the vaccine around the world.  Why give the vaccine to a previously infected healthy 22 yo in a developed country when you could give it to someone more at risk?

We were in line to start distributing vaccines to other countries before the Delta hit.  All of a sudden we needed them for ourselves because people refuse to get vaccinated.  .  It's in the MSM.  But you can always check with Tor:)

[MunoRN, RN]

15 hours ago, jive turkey said:

https://clinicalnews.org/2021/08/26/comparing-sars-cov-2-natural-immunity-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-reinfections-versus-breakthrough-infections/

 

Here's another article for those of you throwing natural immunity to the wind and insist it's "not a valid reason?" for someone to consider deferring on the vaccine after a previous infection (and talking to their doctor)

A case can be made for natural immunity, naive vaccination, and vaccination following a previous infection. 

Side note:  I had to use an anonymous browser called Tor and change the region of search to get this for you ??.  A typical Google search via common browsers like chrome and Firefox display vaccine biased results.

 

That would appear to support an advantage to vaccination even with previous infection, but if we're proposing natural immunity as a substitute for vaccination then what would the timing be to boost immunity.

I have, or at least up until an hour ago when he passed away, a patient with PCR confirmed infection, but like most people in my area that was a year and half ago, at this point it's unlikely there's a meaningful immune response from a coronavirus infection that occured that long ago.  He was in his early 40s, otherwise healthy 

[canoehead, BSN, RN]

As long as the FDA doesnt have enough information to approve the vaccine beyond emergency use, none of us have any business saying we KNOW its safe. 

 

I got my vaccine, but respect the decision of others to wait. It's way too early to disown fellow nurses if they are skeptical.

[toomuchbaloney]

12 minutes ago, canoehead said:

As long as the FDA doesnt have enough information to approve the vaccine beyond emergency use, none of us have any business saying we KNOW its safe. 

 

I got my vaccine, but respect the decision of others to wait. It's way too early to disown fellow nurses if they are skeptical.

You missed the news that the Pfizer vaccine is fully approved? 

[jive turkey]

4 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

What I would say to a person who got vaccinated and has a subsequent vaccine-injury or death? The same thing I say to people that have an adverse reaction to a drug; I'm sorry, there are always risks associated with medical decisions, and that we make recommendations based on a risk-benefit analysis.

Boston don't take this personal.  I don't believe you specifically are the bad guy.  Much of what you said in that reply is fair and understandable.

 I highlighted the word "decisions" in bold because my question was specifically geared toward those who are being compelled to take the drug or risk losing their jobs, benefits, and pensions.  

As a provider, you make a recommendations.  That's not unreasonable.  What's different here is the mandate portion.  Employees and military personnel aren't receiving recommendations.

So when they are given a mandate, comply, and the response to their injury or death is "I'm sorry there are always risks associated"

It reminds me this phrase from a movie:

"Some of you may die.  But it's a sacrifice, I am willing to make".

 

 

 

[jive turkey]

2 hours ago, MunoRN said:

1.That would appear to support an advantage to vaccination even with previous infection, but if we're proposing natural immunity as a substitute for vaccination then what would the timing be to boost immunity.

2.I have, or at least up until an hour ago when he passed away, a patient with PCR confirmed infection, but like most people in my area that was a year and half ago, at this point it's unlikely there's a meaningful immune response from a coronavirus infection that occured that long ago.  He was in his early 40s, otherwise healthy 

1.Fair enough. As for boosting immunity we see that's a challenge vaccination or not.  I shared that to help people see, they don't need to be completely dismissive of natural immunity.   

2.  I don't discount the tragedy in that at all.  That sounds awful.

3.  I didn't forget about you trying to call me out for saying reinfection was rare, then giving you about 4 or 5 references including the CDC that used those exact words.  You got quiet on that ?

[toomuchbaloney]

29 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

Employees and military personnel aren't receiving recommendations.

That's common practice in the military and has been your entire life.  Hospitals and other health employers have required vaccination against preventable diseases your entire professional life. 

More HCWS will die from infection than will die from the vaccine and you know it. 

[guest1163268]

So I am just wondering what if some of our patients who decided to take Ivermectin, suddenly starts braying, neighing and barking etc ???, do we get a Vet consult and who's going to sweep up the poop ??????? 

Are we allowed to put them on a leash?