Vaccination Mandating

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I'm in NY. Wonder how other NURSES are feeling about mandatory COVID vaccination?

2 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

(pt has been sober more than year).

Her choices came to a head during COVID. Those preventable lifestyle choices vs unvaccinated COVID patients. What to do, what to do?

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12 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

What sort of alternative are you referring to?

Maybe Biden should of sent an "Embroidered invite"  to Trump to do a PSA about getting the vaccine. Trump would, Biden wouldn't be caught dead. Trump has a strong pull with half of the nation, to not tap into that for vaccination is unfortunate.

Writers could of  come up with a script

It all goes down to what is important.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
9 minutes ago, DesiDani said:

Maybe Biden should of did an "Embroidered invite" with Trump to have a PSA about vaccine. Trump would, Biden wouldn't be caught dead.

It all goes down to what is important.

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious.  Biden should have known that the only thing keeping Trump from doing a vaccine PSA was a request to do so written in thread stitched into cloth?

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10 hours ago, subee said:

Hysterical nonsense.  No one suggested what you have written.  Maybe you don't understand that we Vax to protect vulnerable people who can't be vaccinated .  No one is suggesting that the very few people who have a medical reason to avoid a Vax should be forced to take it.  Just stop it with your blathering. 

https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/08/25/with-covid-19-infections-surging-can-doctors-refuse-treatment-to-unvaccinated-patients/

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3 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I honestly can't tell if you're being serious.  Biden should have known that the only thing keeping Trump from doing a vaccine PSA was a request to do so written in thread stitched into cloth?

Yup.  She's serious.

Probably not about the actual embroidery.

She knows that Trump is a man who would give up political capital for the greater good.  Despite being booed by his base, if invited by Biden, he would do the right thing.  He could save lives by doing this, and if Biden would just invite him, he clearly would, despite the cost to him politically.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
5 hours ago, DesiDani said:

Her choices came to a head during COVID. Those preventable lifestyle choices vs unvaccinated COVID patients. What to do, what to do?

Alcoholism and cirrhosis are illnesses. They are not a "choice" (and if you think they are you should either retire or have your license pulled). They can be treated but there is no vaccine to prevent it. 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
14 hours ago, DesiDani said:
14 hours ago, DesiDani said:

https://news.northeastern.edu/2021/08/25/with-covid-19-infections-surging-can-doctors-refuse-treatment-to-unvaccinated-patients/

Not sure what this article has to do with my post you quoted.  Do you know any hospital that is actually rejecting non-vaxxed patiemts?

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 12/15/2021 at 3:48 PM, Hoosier_RN said:

So you think that you should pull an unvaxxed person from a bed, kick them out, and give to an MVA victim? How do you know that the MVA victim didn't cause or contribute to their situation?

What about persons who have a medical condition that has their team of Drs recommending against vax? Would they be kicked out too? 

What group would you pick and choose care for next? 

No, I would deny them the bed in the first place. IMO we should keep a reserve of critical care beds available. When we have reached full capacity, minus the reserve, deny critical care beds beds to the unvaxxed COVID patients to preserve a reserve of available beds.

    Exactly how we have denied beds to trauma patients.

When speaking of the unvaxxed we are NEVER talking about the tiny handful of people with legitimate medical contraindications.

   The trauma patient may or may not have contributed to their injury, but what's never happened in my experience is that their injury put others at risk by clogging up the ICU. Except in a few mass causality  situations but those tend to be very localized and don't overwhelm an entire state the way unvaxxed have chosen to do. 

   In the situation of limited resources I would preserve as much life as possible. As a 19 year old combat medic in the army I alone was in charge of determining air evac priorities for the wounded several times. I've made these choices before. This time I would expect more of an interdisciplinary team  approach.

    All that said you can rest easy since I'm not in charge of making these choices and it's unlikely anyone will ask my opinion when setting policy. It's just discussion. Nothing more. 

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 12/16/2021 at 5:31 AM, hherrn said:

Yup.  She's serious.

Probably not about the actual embroidery.

She knows that Trump is a man who would give up political capital for the greater good.  Despite being booed by his base, if invited by Biden, he would do the right thing.  He could save lives by doing this, and if Biden would just invite him, he clearly would, despite the cost to him politically.

Absolutely not. He has demonstrated that he doesn't care at all about saving lives and wouldn't use political capital for anything that doesn't benefit him personally. 

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 12/15/2021 at 8:12 AM, hherrn said:

I'll bite.

Currently we are, for the most part, using our traditional approach, in which the sickest get the most resources.  This works when there are sufficient resources.  Even when this system works, it is pretty marginal.  The amount of time and effort that goes into an ICU patient with no chance of a meaningful recovery has always seemed like a poor use of resources that could be put into improving outcomes for patients who will be discharge to someplace other than the morgue.

Many places are moving to crisis standards of care, which are very similar to MCI triage.  On a normal day, the guy with no heartbeat is the priority.  In an MCI. that pt is left to die to better use limited resources.  

Prioritizing based on vaccination status is a whole different ball game.  I think it's worth discussing, but would represent a huge paradigm shift.  I actually don't have a problem looking at this issue.  And, while I think there are problems comparing vaccinated with smokers,  I would be fine with taking a different approach with repeat hospitalizations of COPDers.  If they are not actively involved in smoking cessation of some kind, I would have no problem denying a bed on their xth visit, and instead providing hospice type care with unlimited smokes and a PCA.  

The reality is that most of us, on a personal level, have no problem with a values based prioritization.  But our system is not set up for it.  If I came up on a bombing scene with a 4 year old with her hand blown off, but no life threatening bleed, and the bomber has an arterial bleed in the thigh, I am prioritizing the 4 year old.  If they come into my ER, I am obligated to care for the bomber.  (Maybe pull the curtain and start compressions to increase circulation?)

Point being, values based prioritization would be huge to change our system, and at a certain point, this may get bad enough to do it.

One of the things that helps me provide good care to the unvaccinated despite my frustration and resentment is to look at them as victims rather than perpetrators.  Like millions of others, they fell for a false narrative.  Most of those pushing the narrative clearly don't believe it themselves, but are willing to let the gullible die for financial or political gain. 

I'm very well aware that values based prioritization would be a huge change. Or to say it in a way that I feel is more accurate, we as a nation have a far to go to catch up to the progress already made by the more advanced cultures. 

    I don't need any techniques to help me provide good care to the unvaccinated. I do the best I can for all of my patients. 

   This is just discussions with my fellow nurses. Has nothing to do with what happens at the bedside. 

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
On 12/15/2021 at 7:31 AM, DesiDani said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/do-covid-vaccine-mandates-work

More people sure, but at a point you will reach a slag. You going to put mandate eggs only in your basket. Not everyone has to  adhere to a mandate. There are already roadblocks. Your flaring you arms wildly about the unvaccinated not going to help. People will not listen to "science says so stupid". They will listen to "It's okay I understand if you think ivermetcin will work". Yes if you have to repeats the facts over and over and over (infinity) with a forced smile on your face, you do it.

 

After all the goal is get more people vaccinated, not worry about annoying some.

You have dishonestly described what I'm doing related to the unvaccinated. 

    I don't think anyone ever thought we could reach 100% vaccinated status among those eligible. I certainly never thought that was a possibility. 

    As I've said openly (in my post titled "I'm Done") I don't care about those who won't listen to "science says so stupid" and I especially don't care about, and won't be codling anyone by saying "It's okay I understand if you think ivermetcin will work".

    I've written those people off. I've cut them out of my personal life. Luckily for me that wasn't painful as nobody I'm close to was one of those. I won't be spending my money on their goods and services, and I'll be using my vote and (admittedly limited) influence to try to prevent them from obtaining elected office or positions of responsibility. Especially at the very local level of school boards, village council, etc. 

   When I'm at work I'll do as I've always done and do my best for all of my patients.  

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