The choice to not take the COVID vaccine I feel is not defendable. The facts are that 99% of hospitalizations/deaths due to COVID are unvaccinated patients currently. This has caused a more severe strain on a already extremely stressed hospital staff, shortage of equipment and services, injury and death from other causes due to delay of care and suffering of everyone involved in the hospitalized COVID patient among other issues. Virologists report delta and other strains are accelerated and created due to the numbers of unvaccinated people in the US. The fact that vaccination rates have only increased about 20% since July with the information available is appalling, while there are 130k new infections daily in the US. This should not be a personal or individual choice and appears due to unfounded anxiety, medical or religious exception and or politics.
The US is averaging 1648 deaths per day. Our country just commemorated the attack on 9/11 where 2996 people died. 20 years later, we are still mourning, and yet more people die every 2 days and they are not acknowledged.
How much time is this herd immunity going to take?
Does the shot TOTALLY PREVENT YOU FROM GETTING COVID? NO. (I know several people, including medical professionals, that got covid multiple times, yes, even after the shot.. so..this scares people..
4 hours ago, Nursenezz said:
Does the shot keep you out of the hospital from covid 100%? NO. (There are still people in the hospitals and ICUs after the covid shot, that have covid, and are dying or just really sick...so this scares people..
I sincerely don't understand why these ^ things would scare people away from getting the vaccine. To me they are reasons to take action to mitigate the effects of covid-19 infection and the spread of the virus that causes it...not reasons to fear the vaccine. Or do people think that if a vaccine isn't a 100% preventive and/or cure-all that Covid-19 infection is somehow worse [than it is without a vaccine]?
Can you elaborate?
4 hours ago, Nursenezz said:
Will you die without the covid shot? NO!!
How can you say that?
I think, at best, you meant to say "it is not a certainty that you will die if you get covid." Which is obviously true. It is also true that "it is not a certainty that you will live."
"70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the pandemic. This number of infections could lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have existing health conditions. The health care system could quickly become overwhelmed."
" It’s not clear how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have antibodies, you could get COVID-19 again"
"Given the challenges, it’s not clear if or when the U.S. will achieve herd immunity."
So, are you willing to depend on so-called natural immunity and millions of deaths to achieve herd immunity? Apparently, a great deal of people are.
Specializes in Treatment-resistant Clinical Depression.
37 minutes ago, nursej22 said:
From your article, bolding mine:
"70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the pandemic. This number of infections could lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have existing health conditions. The health care system could quickly become overwhelmed."
" It’s not clear how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have antibodies, you could get COVID-19 again"
"Given the challenges, it’s not clear if or when the U.S. will achieve herd immunity."
So, are you willing to depend on so-called natural immunity and millions of deaths to achieve herd immunity? Apparently, a great deal of people are.
Provincetown victims were only 4 months out from their vaccination while reports of natural immunity have had minimum estimates of eight months,
Furthermore, just as vaccinated infection is likely to be mild or moderate rather than filling ICUs, second infections are similarly minor.
Over the course of a year, both vaccinated and naturally immune people may get infected by COVID dozens of times and aware of it only some of the time, or not at all.
Naturally immune people have been documented by the Health Ministry of Israel as having 1/5 the chances of being hospitalized compared with vaccinated people. It not only lasts longer, it's more potent.
That said, facing off against COVID with no previous infection and no vaccination is a hairy proposition. Achieving herd immunity with only natural immunity is surely getting it done the hard (and stupid) way.
Just as you shouldn't cast doubt on vaccines without evidence, natural immunity seems to get maligned without a scrap of evidence and quite to the contrary, known data is being ignored.
"Vaccination was highly effective with overall estimated efficacy for documented infection of 92·8% (CI:[92·6, 93·0]); hospitalization 94·2% (CI:[93·6, 94·7]); severe illness 94·4% (CI:[93·6, 95·0]); and death 93·7% (CI:[92·5, 94·7]).
prior SARS-CoV-2 infection for documented infection is 94·8% (CI:[94·4, 95·1]); hospitalization 94·1% (CI:[91·9, 95·7]); and severe illness 96·4% (CI:[92·5, 98·3]).
Our results question the need to vaccinate previously-infected individuals."
Previously infected people have demonstrated a very modest improvement from vaccination only if they were hospitalized by COVID the first time, but that is the only exception.
"After adjustment for potential confounding variables, there was no significantly increased risk in future hospitalization for any condition for patients who were COVID-19 positive versus those who were COVID-19 negative (HR 1.31; 95% CI 0.98, 1.74). In adjusted analyses, individuals with severe COVID-19 had an increased risk of hospitalization for potential complications compared to both mild/moderate COVID-19 (HR 2.20; 95% CI 1.13, 4.28) and COVID-19 negative patients (HR 2.24; 95% CI: 1.52, 3.30). Discussion: Patients with a severe COVID-19 episode were at greater risk for future hospitalizations. This study reinforces the importance of preventing infection in patients at higher risk for severe COVID-19 cases."
Natural immunity contributes strongly to herd immunity. More so than vaccination. It's not opinion, it's data. Hard numbers.
That said, staying unvaccinated if you've never caught COVID is a threat to yourself and those close to you. It's a bad idea. Not sure data can help with those that haven't gotten jabbed (or already infected) by now.
I think, at best, you meant to say "it is not a certainty that you will die if you get covid." Which is obviously true. It is also true that "it is not a certainty that you will live."
SURE. That's a better way to say it. ?
People get scared, it is the uncertainties, the what ifs. People get nervous when others try to force new things on them. They do expect a vaccine to be 100% effective and a prevention measure, and when it is not..they are suspicious? Government or science TRUST ISSUES FOR SURE.
I sincerely don't understand why these ^ things would scare people away from getting the vaccine. To me they are reasons to take action to mitigate the effects of covid-19 infection and the spread of the virus that causes it...not reasons to fear the vaccine. Or do people think that if a vaccine isn't a 100% preventive and/or cure-all that Covid-19 infection is somehow worse [than it is without a vaccine]?
This is an important perception and an important one to get in touch with. What reason would anybody want to enhance the spread of the virus? Do you genuinely believe that's the reason people don't want to vaccinate?
The vast majority of people aren't hesitant because they want to antagonize the world with spreading the virus.
Spreading that perception of the hesitant is dangerous.
This is an important perception and an important one to get in touch with. What reason would anybody want to enhance the spread of the virus? Do you genuinely believe that's the reason people don't want to vaccinate?
That's on me, I may have misunderstood your point. Many are challenging the veracity of fears expressed about the vaccines and reasons to be hesitant. A common attitude is people don't have a justifiable reason to be concerned and therefore, want to antagonize.
Study out of Israel: "This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity"
How do these crazy people actually manage to function in a medical professional setting?
It's one of the problems of a socialized system that apparently doesn't exist in America. Another mass delusion to grapple with.
Where evolution previously took care of these pathological people, now they survive and flourish and infect others with their lies and worst of all procreate and cause so much misery to their children.
Our republican party here, where most of the defective encamp to, now want to ensure that all of their defectives will absolutely never be able to get rid of their unwanted pregnancies. Yet, this is the political party that will not provide any kind of social services for anyone given the chance. Including the retired and elderly. And who do you think are their biggest supporters? The retired and elderly!
I am hoping this vaccine mandate will make a difference, because you really can't argue with stupid people. It would be nice if at least one of their conspiracy theories was true. Especially the one of an implanted device, so we could control them like lemmings ???.
nursej22, MSN, RN
4,849 Posts
The US is averaging 1648 deaths per day. Our country just commemorated the attack on 9/11 where 2996 people died. 20 years later, we are still mourning, and yet more people die every 2 days and they are not acknowledged.
How much time is this herd immunity going to take?