The Union Is Coming

Cvepo · Aug 31, 2017

I've worked in 2 different hospitals with unions. First was a CWA union -- which mostly represents (obviously) communications workers. They sucked because they don't have strong representation in the hospitals. When I moved to Oregon, I joined the ONA which is a strictly nursing focused union, and I see much more support for the union from staff. Our staffing is great, pay is great, we get COL adjustments, etc. So far, no complaints but I have not needed to reach out to them at all. I know the union isn't afraid of administration and were a few hours from striking a couple years ago I guess until administration gave in. Large medical centers NEED nurses, and that collective threat of striking is detrimental to money-hungry administrators that know daily operations and patient care would fall apart if nurses started to strike.

Unions for nursing DO work when they are properly formed. Wages are often much, much higher for staff than in non-unionized places. Also, nurses are usually happier and feel safer knowing they have representation. If you ever get pulled in to a manager's office for a mistake, you are always given a union rep.

Also, FWIW, bad employees can and still do get fired in union facilities. It is a misconception that they don't, and I find it to be a fear tactic and anti-union rhetoric.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Aug 31, 2017

I work for a "small town" hospital (that continues to expand)
with a few local smaller branches in surrounding areas.
Recently, a large group of nurses have decided to bring the union in. So naturally management has been frantic to make them disappear. I should note that years and years ago this same thing happened and the outcome was a big fail (obviously).
So far we have been pulled to 90-minute-long anti-union meetings (while at work, on the clock) lead by outsiders no one has ever seen before, stopped by coworkers in management who are anti-union to hear them out, and staffing ratios seem strangely generous lately (which management has recently pointed out as well). Not to mention the union reps coming door-to-door to make sure we vote (annoying I know). All leading up to the big vote approaching in the next few weeks.
Years ago the nurses tried bringing a union in but decided to give management a chance with all of their promises/plans for better changes, and the union was no-more. WELL, nothing changed... in fact it got worse. Staffing ratios are the big topic of discussion, as well as others.
It is all so suffocating!! I don't hate my job but I am sick of telling management what our issues are and what we think may help us and then literally NOTHING happening. I also can't stand hearing the hate-speeches from both sides but I don't wanna be a non-voter. I want to be an INFORMED-voter and I want the whole truth. Patient safety is teetering on the edge of danger and doom with the overwhelming demands on top of poor staffing ratios, but trusting management again is hard. Temporary fixes are more of an insult from them anymore.
I just want to know, what am I going expect if the union gets voted in?
and what are the pros/cons both with and without the union?
Basically, where are we as nurses going to find the most benefits for us (and our patients) between the two opposing sides?
I just don't know WHO to believe anymore lol

What to expect if the union gets voted in? Depends upon the union, the bargaining team and the contract that the union members vote in.

I've worked in a number of union hospitals, as well as a number of hospitals that weren't union. If I had to choose union or no union, I'd go union every time. Here's why:

Paying union dues is a pain, but the union contract can specify staffing levels, floating policies, overtime policies (can you be forced to do mandatory overtime? under what conditions?), pay scale, a policy for resolving disputes between individuals, an employee vs. management, etc.

If you're in trouble with your boss, a union representative can appear at any disciplinary meetings with you, and they are usually able to negotiate a satisfactory outcome for everyone. (Assuming that the employee actually listens to the union rep's advice.)

Good employees aren't fired because they've got a lot of seniority and management is looking to cut costs, because management wants only young, pretty nurses (yes, that was actually a thing and the union straightened it out), or just because. There's a well documented process for getting rid of bad employees.

Your contract can specify what's most important to you and your fellow union members. For instance, ours specifies that if we agree to work overtime, we get double time-and-a-half after 13 hours, and that we get time-and-a-half for the first eight hours of the next shift we work, plus we get first pick of assignments on the next shift. (I have co-workers that bought rental property on that clause alone.)

You can specify who floats, to which units, under what conditions. (No one floats with under six months of experience, we only float to other adult ICUs, and there's a float list based on who floated most recently. If everyone present floated on the same date (it happens when the surgeons go out of town), then seniority rules.

You can specify who gets the next day shift slot -- ours says seniority, but others go by date of request.

If six employees all want the same holiday off because the ignorant new nurse decided to schedule her wedding on Christmas Day, who gets it off? Seniority or date of request?

Who works the holidays? Rotating? By request? By seniority? The union contract makes sure that whatever method is agreed upon, it is used consistently.

How many weekends do you work? Which ones. Our contract mandated every other weekend. For years, I self-scheduled every weekend because it just worked out better for me and because I enjoyed the differentials. There was a time, however, when I decided I didn't want to do that anymore. My manager would put me down for extra weekends when she "balanced the schedule." After that happened twice, I pointed out to her that I'd self scheduled three out of six weekends, she'd put me in for a fourth and that the contract specified I'd get double time for any weekends in excess of the three. "I'll work the four this time, if you really need me to, but I want the excess weekend pay." She found someone else (who was only scheduled for one weekend) to pick up the extra weekend.

We benefitted from the union contract, and could even be part of the negotiation process. The patients benefitted from the float policy (I'm useless in anything related to peds) and from the staffing ratios.

I'm going to stop now, hoping I've made my point.

heron, ASN, RN · Aug 31, 2017

Here's the thing: YOU are the union. The more involved you are, the more impact you have on how effectively the union functions. If you sit back and expect the union to take care of you, your union will suck. And, let's face it, some do. Meanwhile, having a clear contract set down in writing goes a long way toward keeping management honest. Much of what I hear about getting rid of problem employees has more to do with lazy managers who don't want to do the documentation.

caliotter3 · Aug 31, 2017

You can expect management to be in a nasty mood for a long time after the election, whether they win or lose. If the union does not win, the instigators will get gone, voluntarily, or with encouragement. Prepare for a tense workplace environment for some time to come.

TriciaJ, RN · Sep 1, 2017

What to expect if the union gets voted in? Depends upon the union, the bargaining team and the contract that the union members vote in.
I've worked in a number of union hospitals, as well as a number of hospitals that weren't union. If I had to choose union or no union, I'd go union every time. Here's why:
Paying union dues is a pain, but the union contract can specify staffing levels, floating policies, overtime policies (can you be forced to do mandatory overtime? under what conditions?), pay scale, a policy for resolving disputes between individuals, an employee vs. management, etc.
If you're in trouble with your boss, a union representative can appear at any disciplinary meetings with you, and they are usually able to negotiate a satisfactory outcome for everyone. (Assuming that the employee actually listens to the union rep's advice.)
Good employees aren't fired because they've got a lot of seniority and management is looking to cut costs, because management wants only young, pretty nurses (yes, that was actually a thing and the union straightened it out), or just because. There's a well documented process for getting rid of bad employees.
Your contract can specify what's most important to you and your fellow union members. For instance, ours specifies that if we agree to work overtime, we get double time-and-a-half after 13 hours, and that we get time-and-a-half for the first eight hours of the next shift we work, plus we get first pick of assignments on the next shift. (I have co-workers that bought rental property on that clause alone.)
You can specify who floats, to which units, under what conditions. (No one floats with under six months of experience, we only float to other adult ICUs, and there's a float list based on who floated most recently. If everyone present floated on the same date (it happens when the surgeons go out of town), then seniority rules.
You can specify who gets the next day shift slot -- ours says seniority, but others go by date of request.
If six employees all want the same holiday off because the ignorant new nurse decided to schedule her wedding on Christmas Day, who gets it off? Seniority or date of request?
Who works the holidays? Rotating? By request? By seniority? The union contract makes sure that whatever method is agreed upon, it is used consistently.
How many weekends do you work? Which ones. Our contract mandated every other weekend. For years, I self-scheduled every weekend because it just worked out better for me and because I enjoyed the differentials. There was a time, however, when I decided I didn't want to do that anymore. My manager would put me down for extra weekends when she "balanced the schedule." After that happened twice, I pointed out to her that I'd self scheduled three out of six weekends, she'd put me in for a fourth and that the contract specified I'd get double time for any weekends in excess of the three. "I'll work the four this time, if you really need me to, but I want the excess weekend pay." She found someone else (who was only scheduled for one weekend) to pick up the extra weekend.
We benefitted from the union contract, and could even be part of the negotiation process. The patients benefitted from the float policy (I'm useless in anything related to peds) and from the staffing ratios.
I'm going to stop now, hoping I've made my point.

I can't "like" this post enough. Mainly because it says it better than I could and saved me a lot of typing. Bottom line: a union contract is like rules of engagement. It specifies what both sides get to do and how things have to be done. With no union contract, management can do whatever they like. They can engage in favouritism, retaliation, discipline without just cause, anything they want. They can lie through their teeth and never be held accountable.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Sep 1, 2017

I never liked unions because I didn't like putting my hard-earned money toward causes I disagreed with.

Wuzzie · Sep 1, 2017

I never liked unions because I didn't like putting my hard-earned money toward causes I disagreed with.

Fortunately our union does not appear to have any significant political leanings and I have never experienced any intrusive political behavior on their part.

Here.I.Stand, BSN, RN · Sep 1, 2017

I like it personally, for no other reason than it's spelled out "mandatory OT is not an acceptable staffing practice." I don't do OT except in rare cases where my kids are away and I have the energy for it. My work responsiblities are priority while at work, but when my shift ends my home is my priority. Mandatory OT is about as acceptable to me, as mandating my work to change my schedule with hours' notice would be to management. I like having it in writing though.

I like that pay is dependent on education and experience. It removes any chance of subjectivity.

Incompetent nurses can and do get fired! Actually we had an orientee not to long ago, who was let go. She'd already had her orientation extended and still wasn't a safe ICU nurse. They just need documented evidence of the reasons -- and failure to kiss up, failure to provide concierge service, insistence on getting paid for missed meal breaks, etc -- are not considered acceptable reasons.

As a part conservative/part libertarian, do I appreciate my dues going to support causes I don't believe in? Of course not. However all sorts of entities support causes I don't believe in...and yet I continue to spend $$$ through them, because I enjoy their products. Likewise if the union's product of representation benefits me, I can overlook the political stuff.

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Sep 1, 2017

I can't "like" this post enough. Mainly because it says it better than I could and saved me a lot of typing. Bottom line: a union contract is like rules of engagement. It specifies what both sides get to do and how things have to be done. With no union contract, management can do whatever they like. They can engage in favouritism, retaliation, discipline without just cause, anything they want. They can lie through their teeth and never be held accountable.

I concur.

I am in my first contract with my facility; I came to negotiations, and engaged passionately for myself, people who were fearful, yet saw the newbie (that's me) join because there was a serious and sadistic power struggle where the management of my unit were pitting day shift and night shift, as well as other nurses against each other; people were favorites and were protected, while others were made out of examples; watching the staff almost engaged in an abusive relationship was enough for me, including the vague policies and procedures basically tip in management's favor.

I was a target for management-they wrote me up and basically issued me on a final warning for their scheduling error, which, the new management (which was implemented because my previous director was fired) overturned.

My efforts at the bargaining table had me nominate and win Grievance Chair.

I have represented people who were written up that violated just cause; one was solely based on a laboratory error, not the nurses fault; another was the lack of discipline and that manager not notifying the member that she violating policy and procedure-thought it was more of a personality issues and manager did not do either due diligence in being a leader and having meetings about her behavior in a strutted manner or progressive plan of action.

The most recent are people being flexed because they signed up for overtime but do not meet their overtime mark-which is a GROSS violation of Federal Labor Laws, which we-the nurses who are unionized-WON.

Any issues that arise and are not resolved have been recorded by myself and will present at the bargaining table; we have a short term contract that has salary grids, floating stipulations, just cause clause, the the agreement to staffing grids.

A union is a strong as their members; we still have some ironing out to do, be even the small changes-we we're WAY under the market and had so many loopholes-I precepted individuals and couldn't be compensated because I wasn't the main preceptor-they were given the full bonus if they stayed past six months and got another one when that employee hit a year; now anyone who precepts an individual gets preceptor pay-plus a cost of living increase and percentage for having a clinical ladder, along with representation, and forcing management that have NO idea or simply forgot how challenging and evolved healthcare is to be accountable and not violate the law is a good reason to have a union.

The is this thinking that because we are professionals that we should'nt have a union. My adage is this: it is NOT professional to take an assignment that I am not qualified to take or work with faulty equipment or take an unsafe load of patients.

Unions are needed because of the importance of safe competent care that we want to deliver to our patients so we have better outcomes; even in our work-life balance as well-it also shows one of our aspects in nursing that I immensely enjoy-advocacy in action.

Creamsoda, ASN, RN · Sep 1, 2017

I never liked unions because I didn't like putting my hard-earned money toward causes I disagreed with.

I would be interested to hear what the causes are that you disagree with. And in a union that hard earned money goes to a good thing, helping with better working conditions, pay, etc ( even marginally). And overall its not a huge sum of money. Had there been no unions, you would be making much less.

guest974915 · Sep 1, 2017

"Good employees aren't fired because they've got a lot of seniority and management is looking to cut costs, because management wants only young, pretty nurses (yes, that was actually a thing and the union straightened it out), or just because..."
Ruby, great points and although I've never worked in a unionized hospital, having been employed at quite a few non-unionized healthcare systems, I can speak with some authority regarding the way they (non-unionized hospitals) operate. Age discrimination has become the elephant in the room, and while veiled and not openly discussed, it nevertheless is a common practice. If you are a senior nurse at the top of your pay scale, you definitely feel as if you have a target on your back. Corporate mentality and the maximization of profits dictate getting rid of you (and others like you) in exchange for a 22-year old, fresh faced new graduate nurse who will hire in at considerably less and likely not complain or buck the system. Think nursing experience and its role in the delivery of quality, safe healthcare would be valued? Think again. Age discrimination you're saying-right? Think you can mount a legal defense or file a complaint with the EEOC? These health care systems have very powerful legal departments and a team of Philadelphia attorneys that, through legal maneuvering, can squash these petty claims outright or drag them out for years. It seems to me that unionization is a 'no-brainer' and the future for nursing.

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · Sep 1, 2017

I work for a "small town" hospital (that continues to expand)
with a few local smaller branches in surrounding areas.
Recently, a large group of nurses have decided to bring the union in. So naturally management has been frantic to make them disappear. I should note that years and years ago this same thing happened and the outcome was a big fail (obviously).
So far we have been pulled to 90-minute-long anti-union meetings (while at work, on the clock) lead by outsiders no one has ever seen before, stopped by coworkers in management who are anti-union to hear them out, and staffing ratios seem strangely generous lately (which management has recently pointed out as well). Not to mention the union reps coming door-to-door to make sure we vote (annoying I know). All leading up to the big vote approaching in the next few weeks.
Years ago the nurses tried bringing a union in but decided to give management a chance with all of their promises/plans for better changes, and the union was no-more. WELL, nothing changed... in fact it got worse. Staffing ratios are the big topic of discussion, as well as others.
It is all so suffocating!! I don't hate my job but I am sick of telling management what our issues are and what we think may help us and then literally NOTHING happening. I also can't stand hearing the hate-speeches from both sides but I don't wanna be a non-voter. I want to be an INFORMED-voter and I want the whole truth. Patient safety is teetering on the edge of danger and doom with the overwhelming demands on top of poor staffing ratios, but trusting management again is hard. Temporary fixes are more of an insult from them anymore.
I just want to know, what am I going expect if the union gets voted in?
and what are the pros/cons both with and without the union?
Basically, where are we as nurses going to find the most benefits for us (and our patients) between the two opposing sides?
I just don't know WHO to believe anymore lol

Believe in the power of collective bargaining. The union will have your back, administration does not.