I confess to back pedaling into Trump territory when I wanted to leave discussions about him in the garbage can. My thread on the read-only break room site has 9,600 replies so I thought I'd bring up a new one.
He's not going away.
Haberman's book is out based on interviews. I won't read it, but the excerpts are interesting. Especially what he says about McConnell, a description that's against the Terms of Service here, but I actually don't disagree with. LOL
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“At one point, Trump made a candid admission that was as jarring as it was ultimately unsurprising. ‘The question I get asked more than any other question: “If you had it to do again, would you have done it?”’Trump said of running for president. ‘The answer is, yeah, I think so. Because here’s the way I look at it. I have so many rich friends and nobody knows who they are.’ … Reflecting on the meaning of having been president of the United States, his first impulse was not to mention public service, or what he felt he’d accomplished, only that it appeared to be a vehicle for fame, and that many experiences were only worth having if someone else envied them.”
My take is a jury found him guilty of 34 of the charges.
If he was treated unfairly. and my "if" leaves open the possibility that he was, or if political and legal malpractice occurred, if it's all rigged, then he needs to hire new lawyers for his appeal because while it seems a whole lot of people can see this happening, his lawyers couldn't seem to stop it.
Again, like the stolen election charges, it should be pretty cut and dry to prove all these claims. I'll be waiting and will accept the decisions of the legal system, just like I did and will of the electorate.
It sounds like based on what he, Republican politicians and conservative lawyers are saying, it should be relatively easy for him to win his case since it seems pretty clear to them.
Then they should find the people responsible for it all and hold them accountable.
I even said to someone that I hoped he wasn't found guilty because I could deal with the gloating better than "it's all rigged" that I knew was coming. Also the "even Jesus was convicted" stuff is a bit much. LOL
I truly believe he wasn't treated fairly. I've posted similar opinions from people who aren't Republicans or conservatives. That doesn't mean of course that you have to agree.
His attorneys didn't do the best, imo. I don't think it'll matter who he next hires. He's not going to win an appeal in NY.
I truly believe he wasn't treated fairly. I've posted similar opinions from people who aren't Republicans or conservatives. That doesn't mean of course that you have to agree.
His attorneys didn't do the best, imo. I don't think it'll matter who he next hires. He's not going to win an appeal in NY.
That seems like the likely outcome. It's New York after all. Imagine Biden standing trial in Florida or Alabama.
I truly believe he wasn't treated fairly. I've posted similar opinions from people who aren't Republicans or conservatives. That doesn't mean of course that you have to agree.
His attorneys didn't do the best, imo. I don't think it'll matter who he next hires. He's not going to win an appeal in NY.
I don't know enough about law to agree or disagree. I've read that he might stand a good chance of winning his appeals but I've also read there was a strong case against him which is why he was convicted, bumps along the way or not. Either way it's years down the road.
Again, if it's so cut and dry that it was as he claims a scam that was rigged, it should come to light because as flawed as it is, as much as New Yorkers despise him, we still have some checks and balances that should make it easy for the scam and fraud come to light.
All of this "I'm a political prisoner" from him does make for good fund raising. It's all uncharted territory and as always, nothing is as expected under Trump.
Of the opinions that I've listened to most of them say that under normal circumstances Trump would not get prison time,
But other factors could come into play. The fact that celebrities who find themselves convicted of crimes are often made examples of, with heavier punishments, because the deterrence factor. What does it say to the general public if someone of high-profile is given a slap on the wrist for a crime they've been found guilty of, especially when it involves a wealthy powerful public figure.
For those who think that Trump is not being treated fairly, who else could get away with slandering and insulting the judge, repeatedly defying the judge's gag order? Is that a sentencing consideration?
Ultimately though I do not see him stepping into a prison cell before the election of ever. If he is sentenced it would not happen before then. And if he wins, they will not incarcerate a sitting president. At the very most,, he might have a prison sentence looming ahead of him to welcome him out of office. That would involve some serious motivation to hold on to power.
Also, who knows what might happen with another Trump presidency? Impeachment (third time's a charm!) Removal from office related to civil/criminal activity while in office followed by conviction in a federal court? Lots to look forward to 🤯😣
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Beerman said:
I don't know how he amassed his wealth. Nothing online suggests how. Apparently you don't know either. I'm genuinely curious.
I believe you. I'm sure you are curious. The curiosity is similar to the interest in Fanni Willis's sex life and her practice of keeping cash at hand. It's all generated out of concern that Trump is a victim of democrats with illegal, extra- judicial and un-American intentions.
You are correct. I don't know about Bragg's amassed wealth and I'm not even curious about it. Why? Well, because a wealthy and successful attorney is not exactly uncommon in this country. Maybe you are curious because he's black. Or are you only curious because his team convicted Trump of 34 felonies and its a go to Trump defense to claim that the prosecution is bribed or corrupt or otherwise abusing the law to persecute Trump? Maybe there's another reason you are curious.
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Beerman said:
I'm asking here, because by all news accounts, including some I've linked to here, evidence of the alleged underlying crimes weren't presented to the jury. Those here who say they've been following and reading transcripts have been unable to dispute this.
No, it doesn't mean he's not guilty of breaking the law. It doesn't mean he is guilty of breaking the law. And, nothing was presented to the jury to show he was breaking the law.
I used the alleged tax law crime as an example to narrow the discussion down.
Your "guess" may be correct. That doesn't change the fact that the alleged tax crime was on the menu for the jury to select from. So, evidence should have been presented that he broke that law.
Of course, that's not a problem for Trump-haters. It is a problem for citizens who believe he should be treated fairly under the law.
Baloney.
I summarized some of what the jury heard about the other crimes.
Wrong. Documentary evidence was shown to the jury and witness testimony was heard by the jury which demonstrated that Trump broke the law. That's why they delivered 34 felony convictions.
Yes. I understand that you want to narrow the discussion to a single area that you think might be the weakest evidence of crime. But it doesn't matter. You don't know which crime or crimes the jury thought Trump was trying to conceal... because there were several and he wasn't charged with those specific crimes (he's an unindicted co-conspirator for the campaign crime).
The citizens who are worried or even certain that Trump hasn't been treated fairly in these legal cases are wrong. They have no evidence of wrong doing or corrupt intentions or law breaking. Those citizens have a tendency to believe things that are not true and have no factual or evidentiary support. It's a pattern of behavior by now. It's all about their feelings.
Of the opinions that I've listened to most of them say that under normal circumstances Trump would not get prison time,
But other factors could come into play. The fact that celebrities who find themselves convicted of crimes are often made examples of, with heavier punishments, because the deterrence factor. What does it say to the general public if someone of high-profile is given a slap on the wrist for a crime they've been found guilty of, especially when it involves a wealthy powerful public figure.
For those who think that Trump is not being treated fairly, who else could get away with slandering and insulting the judge, repeatedly defying the judge's gag order? Is that a sentencing consideration?
Ultimately though I do not see him stepping into a prison cell before the election of ever. If he is sentenced it would not happen before then. And if he wins, they will not incarcerate a sitting president. At the very most,, he might have a prison sentence looming ahead of him to welcome him out of office. That would involve some serious motivation to hold on to power.
Also, who knows what might happen with another Trump presidency? Impeachment (third time's a charm!) Removal from office related to civil/criminal activity while in office followed by conviction in a federal court? Lots to look forward to 🤯😣
What he has going for him is no criminal record and that it's a non-violent crime. He shouldn't get jail time. But what he does have going against him his what you say is his behavior and zero remorse.
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
mtmkjr said:
Of the opinions that I've listened to most of them say that under normal circumstances Trump would not get prison time,
But other factors could come into play. The fact that celebrities who find themselves convicted of crimes are often made examples of, with heavier punishments, because the deterrence factor. What does it say to the general public if someone of high-profile is given a slap on the wrist for a crime they've been found guilty of, especially when it involves a wealthy powerful public figure.
For those who think that Trump is not being treated fairly, who else could get away with slandering and insulting the judge, repeatedly defying the judge's gag order? Is that a sentencing consideration?
Ultimately though I do not see him stepping into a prison cell before the election of ever. If he is sentenced it would not happen before then. And if he wins, they will not incarcerate a sitting president. At the very most,, he might have a prison sentence looming ahead of him to welcome him out of office. That would involve some serious motivation to hold on to power.
Also, who knows what might happen with another Trump presidency? Impeachment (third time's a charm!) Removal from office related to civil/criminal activity while in office followed by conviction in a federal court? Lots to look forward to 🤯😣
I quite agree. Many people think that we are here today with Republicans because there were no consequences for Nixon. He died with no accountability. He was above the law.
Trump has given this judge very many reasons to put him in jail. There are only a few to keep him out.
There will be no remedies like impeachment in another Trump term. He has a plan this time. If Trump regains power again it will not be relinquished, that power will be transferred upon his death. That's when the stable chaos will collapse into unstable chaos. It won't take long before Trump is seen resurrected somewhere and the new religion is born.
It will be fascinating.
Tweety said:
What he has going for him is no criminal record and that it's a non-violent crime. He shouldn't get jail time. But what he does have going against him his what you say is his behavior and zero remorse.
Plenty to look forward to indeed.
I agree. Class E white collar felons often avoid incarceration, especially when they are first time offenders or well connected or wealthy.
I think that Trump has lots of time to demonstrate that he is a real menace to our common good to the judge charged with determining his punishment. Is Trump even capable of considering that?
Some called for attacks on jurors, the execution of the judge, Justice Juan Merchan, or outright civil war and armed insurrection.
"Someone in NY with nothing to lose needs to take care of Merchan,” wrote one commentator on Patriots.Win. "Hopefully he gets met with illegals with a machete,” the post said in reference to illegal immigrants.
On Gateway Pundit, one poster suggested shooting liberals after the verdict. "Time to start capping some leftys,” said the post. "This cannot be fixed by voting."
This is now normal for Republican political response. And the behavior flows from the top.
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As he campaigns for a second White House term, Trump has baselessly cast the judges and prosecutors in his trials as corrupt tools of the Biden administration, intent on sabotaging his White House bid. His loyalists have responded with a campaign of threats and intimidation targeting judges and court officials.
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Trump continued his attacks online after the verdict.
On Truth Social, he called Merchan "HIGHLY CONFLICTED" and criticized his jury instructions as unfair. One commentator responded by posting a picture of a hangman's platform and a noose with the caption: "TREASONOUS MOBSTER OF THE JUSTICES SYSTEM!!”
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While the posts identified by Reuters all called for violence or insurrection, most fell short of the legal standard for a prosecutable threat, which typically requires evidence that the comment reflects a clear intent to act or instill fear, rather than simply suggesting a frightening outcome.
Still, one researcher who studies extremist militias said the guilty verdict could inspire violence by reinforcing a conviction among some of Trump's supporters that he's a victim of a conspiracy orchestrated by his enemies.
"I do think a lot of these folks have been looking for an excuse to maybe mobilize for a while,” said Amy Cooter of the Middlebury Institute of International Studies' Center on Terrorism, Extremism and Counterterrorism. "I hope I'm wrong. I've said for a long time, though, that I would not be shocked to see violence result from a guilty verdict, either directed toward the jurors" or others connected to the case
These are perilous times when American Republicans flirt with the idea that violence is necessary to defend their preferred political candidate.
I don't know enough about law to agree or disagree. I've read that he might stand a good chance of winning his appeals but I've also read there was a strong case against him which is why he was convicted, bumps along the way or not. Either way it's years down the road.
Again, if it's so cut and dry that it was as he claims a scam that was rigged, it should come to light because as flawed as it is, as much as New Yorkers despise him, we still have some checks and balances that should make it easy for the scam and fraud come to light.
All of this "I'm a political prisoner" from him does make for good fund raising. It's all uncharted territory and as always, nothing is as expected under Trump.
What checks and balances are you speaking of that are going to bring this "to come light" to those its not too already?
I believe you. I'm sure you are curious. The curiosity is similar to the interest in Fanni Willis's sex life and her practice of keeping cash at hand. It's all generated out of concern that Trump is a victim of democrats with illegal, extra- judicial and un-American intentions.
You are correct. I don't know about Bragg's amassed wealth and I'm not even curious about it. Why? Well, because a wealthy and successful attorney is not exactly uncommon in this country. Maybe you are curious because he's black. Or are you only curious because his team convicted Trump of 34 felonies and its a go to Trump defense to claim that the prosecution is bribed or corrupt or otherwise abusing the law to persecute Trump? Maybe there's another reason you are curious.
I'm not aware of many attorneys who've spent their career in public service that are worth $40 million. So, I think it's a relevant question.
While I do understand the strategy of progressives to disparage and discredit those with differing views, I don't appreciate you implying that my question is racist in nature.
House Speaker Mike Johnson (R-La.) called for the U.S. Supreme Court to "step in" to overturn the guilty verdict against former President Trump in his New York hush money trial.
This SCOTUS has no attachment to precedent so there's some possibility that they could decide to save the despot. They aren't accountable to any kind of ethical boundaries so, it's possible.
Isn't it stunning that the republican party has completely abandoned the rule of law in the era of Trump? Maybe not. They had previously shed their fealty to family values and fiscal responsibility.
Have Republicans fully remade themselves into the party of MAGA and Trump now? Is it more more akin to a cult than a political party? I think so.
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I truly believe he wasn't treated fairly. I've posted similar opinions from people who aren't Republicans or conservatives. That doesn't mean of course that you have to agree.
His attorneys didn't do the best, imo. I don't think it'll matter who he next hires. He's not going to win an appeal in NY.