The problem isn’t her views on Donald Trump. It’s her relationships with fellow Republicans.
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...The divide is deeper than pro- or anti-Trump. Rather, it’s a disagreement about how influential an out-of-office Trump continues to be on the party and whether, politically speaking, GOP energy is best spent fighting him or President Joe Biden. Cheney and her allies say Trump is an electoral loser for the GOP and won’t fade on his own; others argue his influence is diminishing and it’s disastrous to keep fighting the last war.
That sentiment is behind the exasperation with Cheney that extends even to some of the Republicans who joined her in voting for Trump’s second impeachment, according to two GOP lawmakers. They say Cheney is hurting the electoral prospects of the anti-Trumpers in the conference, who are being asked about her, rather than Biden, when they return home to their districts....
...Democracy is not an issue you can simply put aside, or even weigh alongside all the other issues. It’s a foundational issue — the one decision that has to be settled before any other political question can be considered.
That fate of American democracy is the biggest issue in American politics. The system survived Trump’s often clumsy efforts to subvert it. But the threat is far from over. A majority of Republican voters believe Trump’s lie that the election was stolen, and this belief has been the most important driver of their post-election behavior. Republican-controlled states are implementing voting restrictions to placate this lie; Republican officials who refused to go along with Trump’s autogolpe are being removed from their positions.
The Bulwark’s Jonathan Last recently argued that Trump’s election lie is the Republican autopsy. “Republicans are already well on their way to marshaling the political will to do whatever the law even theoretically might allow in pursuit of power,” he argued. In 2020, a handful of key Republican actors were unwilling to use the full extent of their power to overturn the result and either assign electoral votes to their party using their control of state government, or throw the contest to the House.
Trump is both extending his control over the party and ensuring that his anti-democratic ideology is no longer challenged. He is training his party to join him in subverting the next election. ...
I was hoping that without Twitter and facebook, along with NY state investigations that Trumps influence would wane. More upsetting is the BIG LIE continuing with Republicans enabling.
I'm amused that you believe I'm the only partisan one here. ?
How do you keep it up? You know you are only fooling yourself.
You guys are falling apart. You know true conservatives are going to form another party and those guys are organized. Rapist Trump will have to depend on his small money donors and the true conservatives will get the business deals.
Man, I don't get how you folks fall for a dunderhead like Trump who's so dysfunctional and disorganized when you can get behind people like the John Birch recommended politicians. I mean seriously think about it, do you know anyone who is a bigger loser than Trump? He absolutely hates the people who supports him. Do you really think someone from Manhattan and Queens could have anything in common with the people who support him?
I just want to see what kind of can of worms you guys have opened up screwing around with Liz Cheney.
You make it really difficult to have a discussion by persisting in disingenuous and partisan nonsense...like throwing out that partisan deflection and then acting like that doesn't matter...or sharing right wing partisan interpretations of reality and then acting offended when that source Is critiqued and the errors are explored.
If you try really hard not to do that in the future, maybe your comments will be taken more seriously.
I agree it is difficult to have a discussion sometime with someone that posts so much nonsense. The left wing deflection and conspiracy theories coming from a poster here is just as bad if not worse.
I just want to see what kind of can of worms you guys have opened up screwing around with Liz Cheney.
Cheney is not all that powerful so messing with her is easy. Both on a national level and a state level. She's very unpopular in Wyoming. They are angry with her and the base is cheering them on. They are seasoned politicians and know exactly what they are doing.
The moral so far seems to be you don't screw around with Trump.
Cheney is not all that powerful so messing with her is easy. Both on a national level and a state level. She's very unpopular in Wyoming. They are angry with her and the base is cheering them on. They are seasoned politicians and know exactly what they are doing.
The moral so far seems to be you don't screw around with Trump.
It's her dad you have to worry about. Believe me, everything is ALWAYS about contacts and who you know.
Dastardly Cheney has been around for a very long time and knows all of the power players. Notice, Karl Rove hasn't put in an appearance? That is because he isn't a supporter of Trump, none of the old school is. They all know each other and have political clout like no one else. You add in Rumsfeld and the black Russian woman, forget her name, and I think the republicans are in for some serious trouble!
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1 hour ago, Tweety said:
Cheney is not all that powerful so messing with her is easy. Both on a national level and a state level. She's very unpopular in Wyoming. They are angry with her and the base is cheering them on. They are seasoned politicians and know exactly what they are doing.
The moral so far seems to be you don't screw around with Trump.
Exactly.
McCarthy just showed the world that he doesn't have power in the House, Trump does. What happens if some of the House republicans decide that maybe McCarthy isn't the best choice to lead the minority party? That could be an interesting debate.
Also, the topic is Liz Cheney and her removal by her own party. Do you have anything to say about that?
I've already said that the Republicans should move on from Trump. That has been ignored here. I guess because so Trump can continue to be used as ammunition against me and a way to deflect from real discussion.
That being said, she was rightly removed from her leadership position. In the role she was in, she was a spokesperson supposed to be conveying and representing the Republican message. Trump is very popular with most Republicans. She has had it in for him for awhile, and her criticisms arent in line with most of the party.
Now that she is not in that position, she should be free to criticize and say all that she wants.
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43 minutes ago, Beerman said:
I've already said that the Republicans should move on from Trump. That has been ignored here. I guess because so Trump can continue to be used as ammunition against me and a way to deflect from real discussion.
That being said, she was rightly removed from her leadership position. In the role she was in, she was a spokesperson supposed to be conveying and representing the Republican message. Trump is very popular with most Republicans. She has had it in for him for awhile, and her criticisms arent in line with most of the party.
Now that she is not in that position, she should be free to criticize and say all that she wants.
A political leadership position should not be dependent upon ignoring dangerous lies which threaten our republic from the fellow who is yanking the strings of the House Minority Leader, don't you agree? I mean, upholding the constitution and protecting it from all threat is part of their oath, right?
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I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.
The people who just removed Cheney from leadership are not protecting the constitution from domestic enemies. They are removing power from a vocal advocate for protecting the constitution against the clear threat that the BIG LIE represents. McCarthy isn't protecting the constitution or the integrity of his party, he's protecting the sensitive and vindictive ex-president.
Cheney supported Trump in 2016 when other prominent conservative families publicly dissed him. She voted with him 90% of the time on policy. What is the Republican message that she's not conveying? It seems like she refuses to send that complicit message of silence on Trump's dangerous lies.
Cheney has a problem with Trump lying about voter fraud and destroying public confidence in our democratic processes. Cheney had a problem with Trump refusing to concede or facilitate a peaceful transition of power. She was removed for sounding the alarm as congressional republicans behave as if Trump is nothing more than a campaign money maker for them.
She was always free to speak truth about Trump. Republican leadership just doesn't want to be publicly affiliated with or tolerant of the truth about Trump.
I've already said that the Republicans should move on from Trump. That has been ignored here. I guess because so Trump can continue to be used as ammunition against me and a way to deflect from real discussion.
That being said, she was rightly removed from her leadership position. In the role she was in, she was a spokesperson supposed to be conveying and representing the Republican message. Trump is very popular with most Republicans. She has had it in for him for awhile, and her criticisms arent in line with most of the party.
Now that she is not in that position, she should be free to criticize and say all that she wants.
Except all of our loyalties should be to the constitution and not a person. It is what guides us to have a democracy. Remember that word? DEMOCRACY!
2 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:
A political leadership position should not be dependent upon ignoring dangerous lies which threaten our republic from the fellow who is yanking the strings of the House Minority Leader, don't you agree? I mean, upholding the constitution and protecting it from all threat is part of their oath, right?
The people who just removed Cheney from leadership are not protecting the constitution from domestic enemies. They are removing power from a vocal advocate for protecting the constitution against the clear threat that the BIG LIE represents. McCarthy isn't protecting the constitution or the integrity of his party, he's protecting the sensitive and vindictive ex-president.
Cheney supported Trump in 2016 when other prominent conservative families publicly dissed him. She voted with him 90% of the time on policy. What is the Republican message that she's not conveying? It seems like she refuses to send that complicit message of silence on Trump's dangerous lies.
Cheney has a problem with Trump lying about voter fraud and destroying public confidence in our democratic processes. Cheney had a problem with Trump refusing to concede or facilitate a peaceful transition of power. She was removed for sounding the alarm as congressional republicans behave as if Trump is nothing more than a campaign money maker for them.
She was always free to speak truth about Trump. Republican leadership just doesn't want to be publicly affiliated with or tolerant of the truth about Trump.
I posted my rant before reading your post. But republicans just don't seem to understand or get the idea of the constitution and its importance to our way of life.
It's her dad you have to worry about. Believe me, everything is ALWAYS about contacts and who you know.
Dastardly Cheney has been around for a very long time and knows all of the power players. Notice, Karl Rove hasn't put in an appearance? That is because he isn't a supporter of Trump, none of the old school is. They all know each other and have political clout like no one else. You add in Rumsfeld and the black Russian woman, forget her name, and I think the republicans are in for some serious trouble!
There are equally power people that hold powerful positions: DeSantis, Cruz, McConnell, Graham...her own state...to name a few, not to mention the ones that voted her out that are the major power players now.
Dastardly Cheny is 80 years old and one of the most unpopular VP's of all time. Things have changed since he left off and his "power player friends" aren't all that influential anymore. As evidenced by Liz Cheney's strip of power.
Again, these aren't stupid people. Yes, they are in serious trouble and perhaps their damage control by trying to weed out dissenters will back fire, but so far Cheney has been falling on deaf ears, but for the liberals who are cheering her on, call her a hero, but who cares about them.
The good news if they've given her a voice, a mission, a platform. Whether it falls on deaf ears remains to be seen. It's really isn't going to be until the general populace, those that put Trump supporters in power and keep them there, those that believe that the election is illegitimate, 70% or so of them, comes around and accepts that Trump lost and they should dump him and move on, that things will change. She can try though.
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On 5/9/2021 at 8:32 AM, toomuchbaloney said:
The issue is that there are Republicans who are not Trump supporters...like Cheney...definitely a Republican and definitely a social conservative but definitely not a Trump supporter.
This describes me perfectly. I am a Republican and a conservative, but I can’t stand Trump and did not vote for him in 2016 OR 2020. In fact, I voted for Biden because he is a decent human being, even though I oppose his ideas about abortion and tax-and-spend proposals. I worry about his health, and I worry about Democrats pushing him too far left. But I enjoy waking up in the morning and Trump is no longer President.
This describes me perfectly. I am a Republican and a conservative, but I can’t stand Trump and did not vote for him in 2016 OR 2020. In fact, I voted for Biden because he is a decent human being, even though I oppose his ideas about abortion and tax-and-spend proposals. I worry about his health, and I worry about Democrats pushing him too far left. But I enjoy waking up in the morning and Trump is no longer President.
Sometimes voting is hard and presidential elections are the most difficult for me. It's always based on the grey scale, except in very few situations. Like Trump, for example. At least you didn't throw your hands up in the air and not vote at all and now that he's gone, morning coffee is actually pleasant again:)
I'm still waiting on GOP members to actually follow up on their threats if Cheney was removed. Has anyone followed up on their support of her? Did I miss anything?
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How do you keep it up? You know you are only fooling yourself.
You guys are falling apart. You know true conservatives are going to form another party and those guys are organized. Rapist Trump will have to depend on his small money donors and the true conservatives will get the business deals.
Man, I don't get how you folks fall for a dunderhead like Trump who's so dysfunctional and disorganized when you can get behind people like the John Birch recommended politicians. I mean seriously think about it, do you know anyone who is a bigger loser than Trump? He absolutely hates the people who supports him. Do you really think someone from Manhattan and Queens could have anything in common with the people who support him?
I just want to see what kind of can of worms you guys have opened up screwing around with Liz Cheney.