"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
But for my co-worker, a deathbed born again experience will save the patient from the fires of hell, so I think she thinks she is doing what is the right thing. In her belief system I think there's no way around this, the patient will go immediately to hell without some sort of acceptance of Jesus as savior. It puts my nurse friend in a awful spot. I'm glad I don't believe that, it must be awful. How could you not want to convert someone if you thought that? Within her belief system she is doing the right thing, even if it technically violates another ethical system.

Exactly. This is why a nurse like your co-worker would probably make all the appropriate noises about respecting boundaries if asked - and then privately ignore boundary violations as if they didn't even occur. This is because the ends justify the means since preventing the patient from going to hell makes secular ethics and boundaries trivial in comparison. Also, someone this ferverant is likely to not even see the signs that the patient is uncomfortable - so intent on his or her mission.

Ironically, for me as a patient, being proselytized would be hell on Earth. I mean that in the most sincere way. It took me many years to get rid of toxic religious beliefs and find peace. There are many others like me. If some hospice nurse tried to contaminate my spirituality with her views and belief in Jesus (taking care of the Jesus Factor) - I tell you it would literally be hell on Earth. Nurses like that are abusing their power and inflicting pain.

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always taught that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

I am an easy going person in general but I would have no trouble telling her she needs to worry about herself.

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Specializes in NICU, Infection Control.

"...[by the way, is there any church that believes that baptism of a deceased per will save their soul...i think that tazzi got a hold of a loony toon] "

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Mormons believe your progenators can be saved by baptism after death. I know they are very big on Genealogy, that is ? one of teh reasons.

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Specializes in School Nursing.
i think it is perfectly ethical to talk to a patient about religion. as a christian i not only think it is ethical but necessary. i have spoken to patients and have rarely been asked not no pray with them. if they ask me not to, i say nothing else. i'm not catholic, but i have sat and prayed the rosery with a couple of folks because they asked me to and it gave them great comfort. if we provide comfort in this live for our patients, we should be even more concerned about the next. i now work in public schools, so my ability to talk with the students is restricted by law, and i certainly respect that, but i have spoken to teachers and other staff. they have come to me because they know i am a christian and asked me to pray for them or a family member.

i totally agree with this poster. the nurse was doing no harm to the patient and she was doing as jesus directed us to do. i admire the nurse for her convictions. i do also agree that we not "force" this information on patients. only if they are active participants.

________

praiser

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
That's right. It sounded to me as if my collegue considers it part of her mission to make sure her patients are saved. I don't have a problem if patients bring up spiritual questions on their own. I do think it's an ethical violation to be actively evangelizing dying patients.

I consider it a mandate from Christ to tell " all the world" but I don't cross the line in a pt's room. If they are open to it and initiate a conversation itis my duty and joy as a Christian to tell them how to be "born again". If not, no one was ever dragged into the kingdom of God. I pray for them on my own time and try to be awitness by my actions. Wanting to see your pt's saved doesn't mean you will beat them over the head w/ a Bible. If sheis doing that she is in the wrong.

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Mormons do believe in baptizing the dead to save their souls. I'm not sure what the reasoning is, though.

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Specializes in none but hope to have one soon.

As a born again Christian I have to say that it is our duty, as Christians, to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. With that said I don't believe that you can force anyone into heaven. I see no problem with sharing Jesus with someone but if they don't want to hear it stop wasting your time and theirs.

Kimberly

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
i totally agree with this poster. the nurse was doing no harm to the patient and she was doing as jesus directed us to do. i admire the nurse for her convictions. i do also agree that we not "force" this information on patients. only if they are active participants.

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praiser

skimming the surface of this statement - it almost sounds ethically alright. but digging deeper - think about the power imbalance between nurse and patient. it's not like talking in a social setting where you are free to say what you think and the recipient appears to be an active participant. it is foreseeable and likely that a patient will be reticent about making his or her discomfort known because of the power imbalance.

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A person's belief system is intensely powerful and personal; that line should never be crossed unless it is initiated by the patient.

Simply reading through the responses to this thread should be a strong indicator as to why what the OP describes is unethical.

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I can't belive that so many people in this thread support what the nurse described in the OP is doing! It is not even close to be ethical. If I were aware of a nurse practicing like that, I would be reporting her to the administration and would be considering reporting her to the board of nursing.

As other people have said, it is perfectly OK to discuss religion with a patient if that patient wants to discuss it. However, it is totally wrong to abuse your position of power over a patient as they are dependent on you (particularly when they are seriously ill) to try to change a person's religious beliefs.

The fact that so many nurses don't seem to understand that frightens me.

Thank you! Because I can guarantee you as sure as gun's iron, if a nurse pulled that with a member of my family I would call the BON.

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I have to say that like llg, I am getting increasingly frightened by some of the responses I am reading.

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i can tell you that many struggle with spiritual issues at end of life.

devouts, atheists, agnostics, somewhere-inbetweens...

there's frequently the concerns of "is this it?" vs "where am i going?"

when hospice pts express these concerns, many of the devout Christian nurses ive worked with, have taken this as a 'sign' to save them.

this is NOT what the pt was seeking.

they are seeking to make sense of their life and their death.

how do they deal with regrets?

will they be punished in an afterlife?

is this all there is?

did i do enough; did i love enough? are my children happy?

pts need to rest before they die.

it is not just a matter of managing physical pain.

they need to know that they've been forgiven;

that they were loved and respected;

that their life was worthy.

these struggles all result in two outcomes:

for believers in God, that He loves ea and every one of us, flaws and all.

and that we are in loving hands when we die.

for non-believers, that our lives were meaningful, despite the negatives; that all in all, at most points, our hearts allowed us to experience the incredible journey of life.

yes, i care for those who strongly believe in their particular denomination.

but even so, often, these beliefs fray at the souls of those who are dying.

'whoever' said it, it's the human condition...

we all want to hear, "job well done".

leslie

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