"The Jesus Factor"

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 7, 2007

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.
She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always taught that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Her actions ARE unethical. I never accept anyone evangelizing to me under any circumstances. One of the things mentioned in 'Nursing 101' is respect for people's belief and cultures even if you do not agree. I have a high level of respect for Christians, Jews, Muslims and (of course), Pagans, because individuality makes life interesting. For someone to be arrogant enough to assume that everyone agrees with their way of thinking shows me that they are not into healing, they are into manipulation and guilt to get their way. And catching people in the weakest moments in their lives is just plain WRONG.

Like you, I do not discuss religion with my patients or even co-workers unless there is first, an obvious invitation and two, I have to see that the person is open minded enough to listen objectively. It's a shame, school, NCLEX and experience has not made everyone really grow.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 7, 2007

I'm not Jewish, but that is exactly the way I feel about it, too.

Yeah...me, too!:angryfire

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 7, 2007

Years ago I was recuperating from a work-related injury and receiving OP Physical Therapy at a local hospital. The Physical Therapist who treated me was also an ordained minister. Though he was an excellent practictioner and a nice person, he basically got on my LAST nerve, for every therapy session turned into a sermon. I didn't say anything, for I had to have the services and this hospital was the only facility available to me at the time. But, he made me feel uncomfortable just the same and I could not WAIT for my therapy to end.

I would have been pissed off, too, and probably called him a few choice names along with it.:angryfire:angryfire

Nascar nurse, ASN, RN · Jul 7, 2007

While on vacation recently, I went in a T-shirt shop to buy souviners. Salesperson approaches with "Hello. If you were to die to day do you feel assured that you would go to heavan. Have you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior". I politely stated that I attended the church of my choice and was here to buy T-shirts. He just continued on with his preaching... to the point of following me to the door.

My point - some people just don't know when to stop. As a customer, I could just leave (and I did), but a patient is just stuck. This is complete abuse of power from a health care worker.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Jul 7, 2007

While on vacation recently, I went in a T-shirt shop to buy souviners. Salesperson approaches with "Hello. If you were to die to day do you feel assured that you would go to heavan. Have you accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as your savior". I politely stated that I attended the church of my choice and was here to buy T-shirts. He just continued on with his preaching... to the point of following me to the door.
My point - some people just don't know when to stop. As a customer, I could just leave (and I did), but a patient is just stuck. This is complete abuse of power from a health care worker.

A Salesperson approaching you while buying T-shirts??? I'd hate to see him volunteer at a hospital or nursing home...:angryfire:angryfire

Tweety, BSN, RN · Jul 7, 2007

It seems to me that someone is taking a simple statement made by a christian nurse out of context. If she is truly a christian then she knows that brow beating is not the way to convince anyone to accept Jesus and is wrong. She did not say she was going to convince anyone to do anything. As nurses, alot of times we are the liason, if you will, between the patient and most everyone else. If we are there last line of communication to anyone whether it be Buddha or Jesus I would not be able to sleep at night if I did not try to incorporate a sense of peace and acceptance in my care (as a hospice nurse). What will be will be no matter what we do or say.

To quote the original poster: "[The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die."

You're entitled to think these are simple statements. No, we do not know if she was browbeating, but it's just not a simple case of the nurse "being available for the patient". It's her mission to save the dying and convert them to Christianity. Personally I think like it's unethical. This is not the job of a nurse. It's an abuse of her position. It's wrong.

But we can agree to disagree in how we interpret these statements about "The Jesus Factor" being taken care of. :)

hoglover · Jul 7, 2007

To quote the original poster: "[The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die."
You're entitled to think these are simple statements. No, we do not know if she was browbeating, but it's just not a simple case of the nurse "being available for the patient". It's her mission to save the dying and convert them to Christianity. Personally I think like it's unethical. This is not the job of a nurse. It's an abuse of her position. It's wrong.
But we can agree to disagree in how we interpret these statements about "The Jesus Factor" being taken care of. :)

Point well taken.

llg, PhD, RN · Jul 7, 2007

Im sure they could ask for a non-christian nurse, a non-catholic nurse, a non-Buddhist nurse, an agnostic nurse, etc. What is the point?

1. The patient shouldn't HAVE to ask. He/she should be able to count on a nurse who was sensitive to the patient's needs and not there to convert others.

2. It's pretty hard to request a new nurse when you are in intensive care, maybe on a ventilator, near death, etc. The patient is vulnerable and unable to meet many of his/her own needs. That's why he needs a nurse in the first place! He/she shouldn't have to defend himself against the nurse!

hoglover · Jul 7, 2007

If you noticed, I was replying to a previous post that asked if a patient or patients family could request a non-christian nurse. I totally agree with your statements and is exactly what I am trying to say. I am there to meet that patients needs, what they ask of me, to the best of my responsibility and ability. I am simply stating that it doesn't end with pain meds for me. Mind, body, and spirit are not all put at rest with a pill.

queenjean · Jul 7, 2007

Perhaps the hospice/home health agency where she is going is an extension of a church or a religious organization? Maybe this agency where she will be working has it as a part of their mission statement that they provide Christian-type of spiritual services. So maybe she's not out of line.

In any case, though, it sounds like pastoral nursing would be a better fit for this co-worker.

I hope her practice in reality is not how the OP suspects it will be. What a violation of the nurse-patient relationship. I'm saddened to think that someone would do that. Let's think about that in terms of a different belief situation. I'm an athiest. Would it be okay for me to make it *my mission* to make all my patients aware that they don't have to worry about their everlasting souls, because there isn't any god anyhow? How offensive, insensitive, and completely inappropriate would that be!?!

FireStarterRN, BSN, RN · Jul 7, 2007

The homehealth agency is run by the hospital where we both currently work, so she will still be a hospital employee. Really, the more and more I think about this, the more repulsive it sounds. I really respect this woman, she is otherwise a wonderful nurse, seriously. But it creeps me out to think that she plans to try to wrest deathbed conversions from hospice patients.

She mentioned another nurse, a fellow that worked in our Med/Surg unit, who is now working homehealth fulltime. He is a pushy Christian who managed to annoy more than one person in the workplace with his constant references to his Evangelical beliefs at work. I strongly suspect that he is doing the same thing.

kanzi monkey · Jul 7, 2007

As far as I know it is not unethical to talk about religion w/ a pt. any more than it is unethical for a teacher to talk to students about their religious views ( as long as it is a student initiated discussion). Pt.s are often comforted knowing someone is praying for them and, as long as she is letting them direct the conversation there is nothing wrong w/ talking about Jesus.

I think if a patient brings it up, and you the nurse are on the same page, a conversation about religious beliefs isn't necessarily inappropriate. But there is something very unsettling to me about a nurse who has a personal goal of ensuring a patient accepts Christian faith before they die--I will never be a Christian myself, and if I were on my deathbed I think I'd find it quite discomfiting if I got wind that my nurse believed that I was going to hell. :devil: :uhoh3: