"The Jesus Factor"

sonnyluv · Jul 8, 2007

I have never understood why it is such a federal case when a Christian ( or other religion) wants to talk about Jesus. He's obviously important to this woman. I mean no one would get bent out of shape if she believed yoga would make someone's life better and told all her patients how they could start a yoga regimine, or if she was an avid environmentalist and encouraged her pts to go to an Earth day rally. As long as she has her pts permission to talk to them about Jesus, what's the big deal?

So Jesus and Yoga are the same thing?

What if you had a close family member dying, a spouse or a child and I felt it my duty to mae sure that they had accepted powerfull Allah into their soul. Would you shrug it off as you are with Jesus?

And why do you equate someone who has a problem with religious proselytizing as an environmentalist or yoga practioner.

prmenrs, RN · Jul 8, 2007

I think our job would be to persue how the PT feels via active listening techniques. It's way more imp't to elicit their beliefs: "How do you feel about that?" It's not about what we believe, or what we believe they should believe. We must validate their beliefs, and help them come to terms w/the end of their lives.

And, IMO, it's also very imp't to leave our beliefs out of the discussion. If they ask what our religious preference is, a one word answer is sufficient. Then turn the conversation back to them.

We all learned therapeutic communication techniques; if ever there was a time to practice them, hospice would be one of those times.

queenjean · Jul 8, 2007

It's not about what we believe, or what we believe they should believe. We must validate their beliefs, and help them come to terms w/the end of their lives.

Well, that is so well said, I thought I'd quote it and post it again.

And continuing that thought, nursing isn't about the nurse.

imenid37 · Jul 8, 2007

I am more than happy to put my patient in touch with the clergy. I have been asked what I think or feel on a number of occasions. I tell patients I am there for them, but they are the decision makers. If they want to pray, I will silently join them. I would not initiate this though. It is not my call. The therapeutic relationship is all about their needs, not mine or any other nurse's or physician's. I have a lot of respect for chaplains. This is their area of expertise, not mine.

CRNI-ICU20 · Jul 8, 2007

we should leave our agendas, our personal beliefs, our prejudice, our political stances at the the patient's door. we are not at the bedside to convert everyone to christianity, buddhism, moslem, or some other "ism".....we are there to bring comfort, healing, (if possible), and expertise to the bedside. we didn't go to school for four plus years so that we could then turn everyone into "step-ford" patients......

they are individual people! with individual thoughts, feelings, beliefs of their own, and experiences we have not had.....forcing ourselves on their individuality at a point of vulnerability in their life is morally wrong. even christ, when hanging from the cross did not force himself on the two who flanked him....they approached him. they asked for forgiveness; he didn't actively press them to believe in him or his father....and truly, that is the cornerstone of christianity.....that people come to a belief on their own, without coercion or interference from 'outsiders'.....people who believe that they are to zealously 'go out and preach the gospel' forget some key points in christ's example:

1) he spoke to those who had 'ears to hear'....he didn't waste his time on people who refused him.

2)he didn't force himself on others, nor did he look for a vulnerable person and predatorily preach to them.....they came to him....

3)he lived a life of example, not a life of just empty words....

personally, i think it is a disrespectful stance to believe that somehow "i have arrived, and the patient lying there on their death bed has yet to get there".....how arrogant!

one thing many christians and ministers who lead flocks of believers often forget is that it isn't so much what you say that makes a difference in a person's life, it's what you do.

of course, words are cheap, and fast, and easy.....but actions take thought and effort....and many who sit in a pew every sabbath, are not up for the challenge....

if a patient were to ask me "why do you believe what you believe?", i might then, be willing to simply tell them....but only if they ask. in god's own words:

1 peter 3:15 (new international version)

15but in your hearts set apart christ as lord. always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. but do this with gentleness and respect,

if you notice, the first words of the phrase, "set apart christ as lord"...not me as lord...or the religion as lord....or preaching as lord...but christ as lord....and the second part of the phrase, being ready...(which means many have to actually think for themselves why they believe what they believe....why they do what they do....not wait for someone from the pulpit to answer for them)....and the most important part of the phrase, " to everyone who asks....quietly and gently"

okay....i'm done now...sorry for the preachin' moment....

i just think as nurses we hold a unique position to minister to others on many levels....but with respect and with out our own ego's involved....

calling this the "jesus factor" completely says it all, doesn't it?

it wasn't the jesus factor....it was the nurse factor.

ceecel.dee, MSN, RN · Jul 8, 2007

But for my co-worker, a deathbed born again experience will save the patient from the fires of hell, so I think she thinks she is doing what is the right thing. In her belief system I think there's no way around this, the patient will go immediately to hell without some sort of acceptance of Jesus as savior. It puts my nurse friend in a awful spot. quote]
Yes...but your "nurse friend" is not in the awful spot, is she? Her "spot" is not the one in question (in the patient's viewpoint....and her/his viewpoint does Not count at this juncture). I think if we treat persons holistically...mind, body, spirit, we are doing our jobs. Our personal beliefs should not affect our patients. God is different to each of us individually. A nurse is not in a position to attempt to save her/his own soul regarding each/every individual's personal relationship with their own God. Rise above individualism!

EmmaG, RN · Jul 8, 2007

Calling this the "Jesus Factor" completely says it all, doesn't it?
It wasn't the Jesus factor....it was the NURSE FACTOR.

To be fair, that is apparently a quote by the nurse in question.

nana68 · Jul 8, 2007

I Have No Doubt She Means Well, But She Is Way Out Of Line. It Puts The Patient In A Very Uncomfortable Position Unless She Belives The Way This Nurse Does. These Patients Have Clergy Of Their Own Denominations That Usually Visit. If I Were The Family Of The Patient I Would Be Extremely Upset That Evangelizing, Which Is What This Is Was Happening To My Loved One. If A Patient Asks That Is Another Subject But To Assume That It Is Up To You To Save This Person Is Just Plain Wrong.

Dolce, RN · Jul 8, 2007

If you notice, the first words of the phrase, "set apart Christ as Lord"...not ME as lord...or the RELIGION as lord....or PREACHING as lord...but Christ as lord....and the second part of the phrase, BEING READY...(which means many have to actually think for themselves why they believe what they believe....why they do what they do....not wait for someone from the pulpit to answer for them)....and the most important part of the phrase, " to everyone who asks....quietly and gently"

Wow, excellent post. I have offered many times to pray for patients and have had patients ask me to pray for them. I have never pushed it on a patient and have been respectful and sensitive in doing so. In my experience patients have been so grateful, many of them tearful, with having someone offer to pray for them. CRNI-ICU20 is right...Christians should not be out to jam Christ down the throat of every person. He is not an entity that can be forced on anyone. It is our job to live lives that display His love and compassion. I think that is one of the greatest privileges of being a nurse.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Jul 8, 2007

Thing is, the proselytizer may not think he or she is jamming Jesus down anyone's throat. They may be so ferverent that they don't even see (consciously) the signs of discomfort, let alone the ethics violations. After all, perception is reality. All the scripture is moot anyway because the bible is not the standard for professional nursing.

I like the post where someone said it's about the patient and not the nurse's beliefs or agenda.

caliotter3 · Jul 8, 2007

I've seen inappropriate behavior by nurses concerning religion/religious activities in every area I've worked. I am very careful to limit my talk concerning this subject with my patients and usually only talk about religion if they bring up the subject. Recently I was a patient in a religious affiliated hospital, very, very, sick and was very uncomfortable when a hospital volunteer came in to innocently ask me if I had any religious needs. I just felt that I didn't have enough energy to be dealing with this, even though the girl was polite. I can imagine what someone as sick as I was would have felt like if they were of a different faith and thought they were the subject of preaching.

Chances are high that your friend will get away with any behavior of this nature in home health unless she encounters a patient/family who are offended enough to complain. As annoying as she may make herself, and as unprofessional as she may be in this regard, there are far worse things that the patients or their families can complain about.

Your friend really should consider going to work for a healthcare entity that is affiliated with her religion. She would be happier there and more accepted. JMHO.

nana68 · Jul 8, 2007

Dolce: The Minute You Offered To Pray For A Patient, Without Them Asking, I Still Say That Is Over The Line. Again, Though You Mean Well And Are Sincere If You Are Asking Someone Who Does Not Have The Same Religious Beliefs As You, That Can Be Uncomfortable For The Patient. How Are You Being Respectful And Sensitive When You Ask? Do You Pray In Jesus's Name And If That Is Not Who He Or She Believes In Could That Be Uncomfortable For Them.i Think Religion Just Like Politics You Are So Right About It Being The Job Of A Nurse To Show Love And Compassion And That May Come From Being A Christian Or From Other Religious Beliefs And Teachings. Of Course If The Patient Is A Christian There Would Be No Problem In Their Asking You To Pray For Them. Without A Doubt Of Course We Can All Use A Little Extra Prayer Wherever It Comes From I Just Still Believe That Most Families And Clergy Take Care Of That In Hospitals. I Am Sure Silent Prayers For That Patient Is A Good Thing Too. I Still Think Religion And Politics Are Very Personal And Should Be Left At The Door. That Does Not Stop Us From Praying For Them As I Am Sure After A Day Of Working In Hospitals We All Have Situations That We Take Home With Us That Remain With Us In Thoughts And Prayers.