sonnyluv

Please read you articles before you post. It is a very simple equation: Too many nurses=lower salaries=CEO's make more money. Has congress helped nurses in the past? Congress is run by lobbyists who work for large hospitals. Where do you think this bill came from?

Hey All! I'm an I.C.U/ E.R. nurse about to get into the precepting game. While it's not quite the same as teaching newbies (I'll be teaching mostly experienced nurses) I would absolutely LOVE TO HEAR ABOUT SOME OF THE TRICKIEST, STICKIEST AND MOST UNBELIEVABLE SITUATIONS YOU HAVE FOUND YOURSELF IN WITH A NEWBIE!! Thanks so much- Looking for lessons to learn from and get a chuckle or two while I can- Sonny

Do the mature thing and back off, do not engage, be polite and let them fly straight into the ground.

I apologize you feel like there is hazing going on. My post is responsible for that sentiment. Believe it or not, I sympathize with you more than I have issues with the BSN. I think it's wonderful that nursing is moving forward, becoming undeniably more professional. Nurses are gifted, talented, dynamic pro's and we deserve a whole lot more credit than we get. The BSN frustrates me because it is not changing the profession for the better. It seems to be raising the bar for expectations with no reward. And while your focus is on employment and becoming a nurse you will soon ask yourself, "Okay, I'm a nurse, I know what I'm doing, I'm educated, why no growth? Why are nurses pay and status capped so early but responsibilities grow exponentially." Nursing is a field of lateral movements, not upward. This is my second career, I have a B.A. in media. I worked in a corporate environment. I cannot believe the expectations placed on nurses and the offensive demand that we do what we are told because if we don't we are greedy evil people who hate our patients. That's a generalization but a subtle pervasive attitude I pick up on from many unsatisfied nurses. It's ridiculous. With your BSN your scope of practice is not much different than mine. Your pay is not much more than an ADN (though it absolutely should be). I guess my frustration lies with the fact that I see the BSN graduates and I expect to hear excitement about this wonderful career, I expect to hear talk about moving nursing forward, more talk of nursing research, more talk of pay improvements (nursing salaries on a whole have been relatively stagnant for the last 8 years yet we are expected to do more and know more), more talk of professional recognition amongst our peers for the amazing jobs we do on a daily basis. But there is an utter disconnect regarding the fact that nursing is a rough, sometimes brutal sport. After you find a job and get settled in I assure you will ask yourself, what did this degree do for me? If it got you your foot in the door, great-but what about that horrible nursing shortage? You will be forced to confront an absurd amount of hostility coming from senior nurses who feel insecure or cheated. The behavior of experienced nurses towards new nurses is not only illegal but is tolerated and encouraged. It breeds resentment and profound insecurity. I see no collective thought or direction from our field. I don't advocate that anybody talk politics or salary at work but my friends who are new BSN's seem to expect senior nurses to take care of all matters political. The fact is, senior nurses are EXTREMELY THREATENED by new nurses of any degree. We work cheaper, we take more crap from management and admin cuz we don't know better. And worst of all, they are expected to train their own replacements. Hospitals do let go of senior nurses rather easily. I feel such resentment among older nurses and I sympathize to a point. Newer nurses have more career possibilities, the treatment of nurses is much much better than it was 20 years ago. I've only had a problem with one or two docs but I constantly find senior nurses saying horrible things about me and my coworkers. Senior nurses that have mentored me have had to do so quietly for fear of retribution from their peers. Nursing simply has not caught up to modern standards of professionalism. Nursing hasn't been about making the doc happy or even being afraid of him/her. It is a collaborative sport that is incredibly satisfying when someone gets better, heals. But if the healers are neglected, poorly treated, burned out, uninterested in expanding their own field, well then , everybody suffers. I'm grateful there are more BSN's-if you guys don't lead us who will?

I agree, to get in right out of school the BSN is undeniably an asset. It just seems sad to me that it takes a recession/depression to make any sense out of the BSN. And the salary premiums are like, a buck an hour. That's not a premium, that's literally pocket change to keep BSN R.N.'s from realizing they're getting jipped.Obviously, IMO. In regards to the Kaiser CTICU- HAVE YOU SEEN THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS FOR THAT POSITION??!! OMG! THEY WANT A LETTER OF REFERENCE FROM A CARDIOTHORACIC SURGEON, BSN, IABP, CRRT, 3 YEARS MINIMUM, CCRN. But here's what's messed up about that- they aren't going to pay you ONE RED CENT MORE FOR THAT KNOWLEDGE, EXPERIENCE, AND LEVEL OF CERTIFICATION. Sure you'll get the 10K bonus, which will be 5K after taxes but that's it? All those years of learning, stress, studying and your base will be two or three bucks above a new grad on med-surge. Forget it. Honestly, at that level you are expected to know as much as M.D.'s. That is no exaggeration, about half your day is spent arguing with M.D.'s about why their orders are 1) written wrong 2) just plain wrong. I love critical care, I love my time in the I.C.U, and I realize this is a bit off topic but-and it feels great to say this: risk vs. reward- it just aint worth it. I've started a new job at a providence ER, non-trauma. Just helping patients out, learning more and more, and guess what? I realistically am expected to know 50% less than what was required of me on a daily basis in the I.C.U. I never got paid for that knowledge, all I got was more stress, more dead bodies, more sad families and more flak from management. Anytime I would put my foot down, use evidence based research to back up my points some busy body nurse would float by and say"well I have 20 years of experience and maybe your little book says that but I'VE NEVER DONE IT LIKE THAT SO IT'S WRONG." End of discussion. I took a break and now I realize, it just wasn't worth it. Perhaps if my base came out to a 100k a year, maybe it would have been, but frankly, I made as much as med surge nurses who weren't even required to be able to understand a single ecg rhythm, or any ACLS, yet I was required to be able to expertly read a 12 lead ecg! Knowledge is power and I enjoyed what I learned so much, it really was invigorating. In the end, having that knowledge, having NO power and a monster mortgage sucks. Being an elite I.C.U. nurse seems to be more about ego than anything else. Forget about it! Sorry ya'll, my 2 pennies. I have so much less stress in my life and MAKE THE SAME PAY! It just wasn't worth it. Most of you out there are thinking: CRNA. Go for it if the prestige and money are your passion. Nothing wrong with that. But just remember, there are costs. Cheers S

I'm not sure I agree with you, at all. Hospitals don't care one way or another if you have a BSN. They certainly don't pay much more for it. What they want is experience. I appreciate your insight but 1) I've been working in one of the best I.C.U.'s in this wonderful city since August, with an ADN and a decent resume 2) Having been in the medical field for almost 6 years now, a nurse for 15 months, I can say that four year nursing students TRADITIONALLY have less clinical experience than anyone else on the floor. A BSN does not mean you have 4 years of experience. It means you took your undergrad at the same place you got your nursing degree, paid a lot more in loans and if you want, can move into management sooner than me. (enjoy.) I haven't seen an LVN on a hospital floor in three years. Comparing a "two year RN" to a "four year RN" to a "LPN" is nonsensical. While it looks good on a resume you will find that during the interview with the hiring manager it will not get you very far. Oh yeah, the VA is hiring basic RN's, without any experience. I'm still getting calls from kaiser and Providence. frankly pumpkinnutter, the whole BSN thing is kind of a load. Nurses with BSN's have a hard time coming up with reasons as to why they actually need the BSN and they seem incapable of commanding or even asking for more money with it. In fact, BSN grads are the only new nurses who don't talk about money. Why is that? Bad word, money? I think not! Just too professional I guess. The reality is a lot of BSN's have never had a job before. Maybe they worked part time, or volunteered somewhere but the vast majority get their credentials rammed in their face, they are the most easily overworked, and seem utterly incapable of taking themselves seriously. They do gossip a lot though. Cheers S

Haven't signed yet, thanks for the advice!

Hey all! I'm about to take my first travel assignment. I will be going to Los Angeles to an I.C.U. They are offering $1500/month for living expenses and $25/hour for pay. $400 for travel costs. Insurance for me and my wife+ son will be $150 every two weeks. They say they don't pay any shift differential. Their logic is bizzare, something like "if you like working nights then why should we pay you more..." really nonsensical. That's their offer. I have a year of experience going in. So-wise travelers, am I getting a good deal or no?

perfect! Range is 10-20mmhg.

You're not burned out! You are a human being working your heiney off and due to cultural norms, media representation, lack of knowledge on the general publics part you don't get the credit you deserve. This has got to be in the top three reasons nurses leave the field. Especially L&D nurses. The nurse who helped my wife and I deliver our baby was awesome. The doctor showed up an hour after being paged and vacuumed out my little son. She took a quick look at the kid and then literally left without saying a word. We thanked our nurse so profusely, hugged her, she was in tears, so grateful. Look, we are surrounded by other professionals who have more education, more degrees, and often a lack of modesty. Doctors see nothing wrong with A) Reminding everyone of the work they do and B) Taking credit for it. (And C: demanding they get paid for it) It's somehow ingrained in nurses to not feel worthy of the credit we deserve or even to stand up and say "I deserve some crdit here!" How can you politely remind a family that you are skilled, knowledgeable, and caring for them in their time of need, more than the Doc? Impossible and probably selfish. Keep in mind there are good nurses and bad nurses, too. Some R.N.'s don't have a very large base of learning to work with nor are they interested in continuing to expand knowledge and grow. I also think there are more medical assistants calling themselves nurses then ever before. But I agree with another poster, they WILL remember you, and they will be grateful. But I know how you feel, they just don't understand how much of the machine you are actually operating.

Hey all! Starting in a new I.C.U tomorrow and have the written portion of the clinical competency. Am I nervous! So I am studying hemodynamic monitoring and I can't seem to find any literature, online or off, about mean pulmonary artery pressure: How to measure, significance of values, and alterations of. Would I simply just put a line through the middle of the PAP- or do I average the A-wave like in PAWP. Thanks for any advice given- getting close to the wire here (alright pun intended!) and this one is a doozy. Even pacep.org doesn't have and they seem to be pretty thorough on the whole topic. Thanks, Sonny

I think you should appropriately state what you did and why it was strong work. Often, we nurses don't give ourselves credit for the great work we do. And pointing out the code you had that went well (sounds like) reminds everyone what we are here for and what nurses can do. Take some credit!

Hey all- Good friend of mine is an anesthesiologist who runs a busy pain management clinic. He is also a certified Family Medicine Doc. He wants to start up urgent care/ basic family care clinics with NP's as business partners. His idea: NP invests 50% start up cost, owns half of business. We split billings 50/50. My understanding is he wants to start multpiple clinics and said he would also want someone to oversee facility management. Could lead to a managerial role for me. This is in California.　 But I am hesitant to finish pursuing my NP license. The more practicing NP's I meet the more discouraged and worried I get about the rewards. Coming from a corporate/professional background I see NP's as a largely unsavy business group. Poorly promoted as practioners and certainly poorly received. Worst of all, the NP's I have shadowed in a multitude of specialties, including masters degree trained CNS (I know different job) have absolutely been clinically proficient and clearly an asset to the groups they worked for. They truly are talented at what they do. Unfortunately, many of these professionals bristle at the talk of compensation or negotiation. I felt as if the pervasive attitude was "We are lucky for what we get and it beats working on the floor." I also noticed obvious condescension from MD peers. Some of the NP's I shadowed (11 total, I research hard) still seem to have the R.N. instinctual fear of M.D. authority and like less professional R.N.'s talked with cattiness about fellow staff. No talk of negotiation, some talk of bonus, NO PROFIT SHARING! WHAAAT? Several simply said (generalizing) "I didn't like being on the floor" implying to me that they didn't see themselves as a new professional entity but merely doing something different then working as a staff R.N. I see salary starts for NP's barely more than non-advanced practice nurses. I find many NP's justify the inequities of their treatment with again , "It beats being on the floor." What!? In my opinion, as a male RN, NP's are absolute proof of sexism and glass ceilings. Why is it that PA`s start in upper 70's to low 90's, while NP are lucky to start at 40/hr and often get pigeon-holed into salary postions in the low 70's where they work like dogs. I have a friend who just graduated from UCLA with a NP/CNS (dual certification) specialty in cardiology. She met with a group of cardiologists for a position, they ask her what is she looking for most of all. She says "respect". The president of the group says point blank, "No. You will not get it here." She is offered 72K, 50 hour work week minimum. She will be on call 3 weeks out of the month FIELDING NIGHTT PAGES FOR THE MD MEMBERS OF THE TEAM TO DECIDE IF THEY SHOULD BE DISTURBED FROM THEIR PRINCELY SLEEP. The same cardiology group not only utilizes PA's but it also has TO TRAIN THEIR PA'S in cardiology but starts them in the mid 80's. PA'S have one week on call. She tells them to take a hike. No other better offers presented. Now she is back working with me in critical care, 50K+ in debt, exhausted and furious. My MD friend is not impressed with PA`s professionally and has had good experiences with NP's (Of course!). The bottom line is there are simply not enough MD'S going into or existing in primary medicine yet the AMA still attacks advanced nursing every chance it gets. I don't want to get into this fight for a living but at first glance my friend is offering me a genuinely great opportunity. Sad to say, while I may be business savvy, if my peers are not, and are working for a few thousand more than non-advanced practice nurses while passing rigourous didatic, clinical training and then passing challenging licensing tests all for little promotion and recognition it's going to be a long slog that will put a strain on my family in many ways- trying to move ahead while everyone stays back. Just doesn't seem worth it. So: Am I wanted as a business savvy negotiator among NP peers? Or will it be much of the same as it is in critical care: Institutionalized mal-treatment. Professional insecurities, petty infighting, the patient lost in the shuffle. I`m inclined to go CRNA for business reasons but my passion lies with working with families and giving excellent primary care. I just keep asking myself- why is there such a difference between CRNA and NP? Perhaps there was a time when NP'S were not adequately trained for the positions they attemped to take on? Why is no one effectively promoting the advanced nurse as cost saving effecient and competent professionals that they are? Thanks all, long post-my apologies. It's just that I take this commitment seriously and if I plan to move ahead, I`m moving ahead. I do not mean to offend anyone I am just being frank. No doubt, people who have different opinions than me will inform me and I encourage the discussion. Looking for some light at the end of the tunnel here! Sonny

I'm in a SoCal ICU, full time staffer. Census is down very low. Called off once to twice a week. Very worried!

Thank you for saying that and I believe what you say holds true. Your post reminds me about what I hope to find in Portland: compassion and a friendly atmosphere with rationality. Frankly, I am pessimistic about the economy and I DO NOT expect this recession/depression to let up anytime soon. And for some reason, at least in LA, we have started getting more foreign/visa nurses- now they are coming from Morocco and Ethiopa, Nepal. Its baffling... I just want to say this: If you can possibly move to a bigger market, like Los Angeles (maybe Seattle?) then by all means get your experience, fatten up the resume and come back. I understand if you have obligations, family, but to get your career started this is what you must do. It is a shame, escpecially after all the "shortage" hype but Portland will always be there, it is for me. Do what you`ve got to do...