"The Jesus Factor"

[FireStarterRN]

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

[UM Review RN, ASN, RN]

Edited. Sorry, I just reread that and there's just way too much possibility that someone will take offense to it, though none was intended.

Carry on!

[TazziRN, RN]

i can't believe that so many nurses believe that their patients are weak amd unable to make a decision for themselves

if i were in a hospital bed and someone came in with the wrong meds or discussing something i felt inappropriate i would certainly speak up

op does not know what will be going on in the hospice situation, the nurse may be feel that by working in this enviorment she is there if a patient want to talk and that she has no intention of adding extra stress in an already difficult situation

i believe that she is too quick to judge fellow worker

[by the way, is there any church that believes that baptism of a deceased per will save their soul...i think that tazzi got a hold of a loony toon]

It's not that people are weak and unable to make a decision, it's the idea of a pt on his/her deathbed being told that if he/she doesn't accept Jesus before death, Hell is that person's destiny. People about to die are scared (as a whole, not every single person) and can be coerced into believing almost anything.

As for the last question, my understanding of Catholicism is that anyone not baptized will not get into Heaven. It's for this reason Catholics want fetuses baptized after aborting, to make sure they go back from whence they came.

[vashtee, RN]

I am Jewish, and I have to say that the kind of nurse seeking deathbed conversions makes me feel as though I should be seeking out dying Jewish patients to spare them this final indignity.

[EmmaG, RN]

This is a true incident:

I was in the hospital and a "friendly visitor" from the chaplains office came to my room. I didn't ask for the visit. This guy was w/c bound. He started "ministering" to me. I politely asked him to leave several times, but he would not go away. It was only after I picked up the phone and threatened to call security that he left. Imagine if I had been timid or too debilitated to speak up for myself.

Thinking back, it would have been pretty comical to see security escorting this w/c bound guy out of a pt room. I was a little disappointed he chickened out...that would have been awesome.

BTW, he was relieved of his volunteer duties.

Some people are fanatics.

Our Chaplain was fantastic and never overstepped his bounds. Although he was a devout Baptist, he was sensitive to the spiritual needs of all the patients he encountered, regardless of their beliefs. I called on him often and he never once refused to help or act as though it was an imposition on him.

He would come at all hours of the day or night. And it wasn't always for religious reasons, either. One night he spent almost 6 hours counseling an 18 year old girl who's mom had died unexpectedly without any arrangements... the girl was her next-of-kin and there was no one else available; she was simply overwhelmed, unable to make any decisions regarding her mom's disposition. He stayed with her, helping her work through the process, finally finding an aunt out of state to assist this girl. He wasn't there as a chaplain for her, but as someone to help her through the most horrible time in her young life.

Once I had a patient who was actively dying, and I knew she was going to go that night. I called our Chaplain for assistance; the patient and her family were Buddhists, and he came in in the middle of the night and helped them through the rituals of their faith. He told me later that he'd never had the chance to assist a person of that belief, and thanked me for calling him in and giving him the opportunity to experience that; I was so impressed.

[TazziRN, RN]

I am Jewish, and I have to say that the kind of nurse seeking deathbed conversions makes me feel as though I should be seeking out dying Jewish patients to spare them this final indignity.

Exactly!!! It's one thing to ask a pt if they want to talk about their beliefs, but someone who believes like the OP's coworker is not going to respect anyone's beliefs if they don't coincide with hers.

[TazziRN, RN]

Our Chaplain was fantastic and never overstepped his bounds. Although he was a devout Baptist, he was sensitive to the spiritual needs of all the patients he encountered, regardless of their beliefs. I called on him often and he never once refused to help or act as though it was an imposition on him.

He would come at all hours of the day or night. And it wasn't always for religious reasons, either. One night he spent almost 6 hours counseling an 18 year old girl who's mom had died unexpectedly without any arrangements... the girl was her next-of-kin and there was no one else available; she was simply overwhelmed, unable to make any decisions regarding her mom's disposition. He stayed with her, helping her work through the process, finally finding an aunt out of state to assist this girl. He wasn't there as a chaplain for her, but as someone to help her through the most horrible time in her young life.

Once I had a patient who was actively dying, and I knew she was going to go that night. I called our Chaplain for assistance; the patient and her family were Buddhists, and he came in in the middle of the night and helped them through the rituals of their faith. He told me later that he'd never had the chance to assist a person of that belief, and thanked me for calling him in and giving him the opportunity to experience that; I was so impressed.

Your pts are so lucky to have this chaplain!!!

[EmmaG, RN]

Your pts are so lucky to have this chaplain!!!

And so were we. He made it clear he was there for everyone. Patients and staff...

Every day, he would come to each of us and ask if there were any patients or family members in need. And he always followed through.

I often worried about him "burning out", but he had such a sense of calm and peace about him. Truly amazing man.

[Happeetxn]

I don't think people should impose their beliefs on others, I would find it highly offensive if someone did this with me.

I don't think people people should impose their religion on others either, i.e. muslim extremists saying convert to Islam or die. Not a whole lot of Christians touting this line.

I am a Christian male and I believe as is written in the Bible......the only way to God the Father is thru His Son Jesus. Having said this I do not go around telling people they are going to hell if they don't believe the same way I do. That is for the individual and God to deal with, not me.

Now I do not hesitate to tell my patients I will pray for them, or if I know they are Christian pray with them. For the ones whom I don't know their religious preference and I can see they are scared (ex: they are headed off for a CABG) I simply say "I will keep you in my prayers". I don't say "I will pray to Jesus for you" or "you need to believe in Jesus...just in case". I have had no complaints against me yet. The answers I get are usually a simple "thank you / thanks" to a head nod.

For me nursing is encompasses all tools at my disposal to care for my patients...medicines, knowledge, touch, spirituality / prayer, psychology...etc.

In closing I will use the line from Kinky Friedman, a Texas gubernatorial candidate:"May the God of your choice bless you".

Craig

[TazziRN, RN]

Craig, I would love to have you as my nurse! Big difference between what you do (acceptable) and browbeating pts who are at death's door.

[EmmaG, RN]

Craig, I would love to have you as my nurse! Big difference between what you do (acceptable) and browbeating pts who are at death's door.

Agreed. If you pay attention to your patients and follow their cues, it's not difficult at all to know where to go with this.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I can't belive that so many people in this thread support what the nurse described in the OP is doing! It is not even close to be ethical. If I were aware of a nurse practicing like that, I would be reporting her to the administration and would be considering reporting her to the board of nursing.

As other people have said, it is perfectly OK to discuss religion with a patient if that patient wants to discuss it. However, it is totally wrong to abuse your position of power over a patient as they are dependent on you (particularly when they are seriously ill) to try to change a person's religious beliefs.

The fact that so many nurses don't seem to understand that frightens me.

[llg, PhD, RN]

I am Jewish, and I have to say that the kind of nurse seeking deathbed conversions makes me feel as though I should be seeking out dying Jewish patients to spare them this final indignity.

I'm not Jewish, but that is exactly the way I feel about it, too.