"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

I wonder what the "fallout" might be, if, for instance, we were talking about a radical Muslim proselytizing while nursing....or say a member of Syung Moon's church, or maybe one from Aton Levey's Church of Satan in San Francisco???? I dare say, I believe the tolerance level would plummet. This is precisely why we shouldn't bang on this door.

I liked what one poster said when she gave her very personal experience in a less than stellar hospitalization. Often as Christians, I have noticed that when opportunity is staring them straight in the face, they seem to miss it, because they have their OWN agenda, recipe, or whatever to follow, and all gets lost in the shuffle. Had the poster received her pain medications, been ministered to physically first, and had her needs met, she might just have been a bit more receptive to other points of healing in her life.....the examples that Christ gave in His own life to us was just that.....HEALING and meeting the need of the individual before conviction of sin in their life....

I think it is completely arrogant and not even Biblically supported to do otherwise. Yes, "go and preach the gospel to all nations"....but HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED?? By telling people "well, I got the Jesus Factor all squared away!"? I try to imagine St. Paul running up to Timothy in Cyprus and saying the same thing.....I am thinkin' that might have put a damper on the advancement of the faith at that point.

This nurse may well be an 'awesome, awesome' nurse, but she lacks spiritual maturity. A mature Christian knows how to put her own self to the side, and "wait on the Lord".... Timing is everything. The key to converting others is to first respect them as human beings.

;)

As for some who are expressing complaint that when anyone mentions Christian ideas or values, that there is a backlash toward them.....

didn't Christ tell you this would happen??

"Many will persecute you for My name's sake...."

Don't whine about it...".give them your other cheek also...." that is what sets you apart from the rest of the herd.....;)

It's all part of growing up....spiritually. crni

What an excellent post!

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Any Christian nurse who would tell a pt they are going to hell should check her/his spiritual pulse. Jesus tells us to speak the truth in love. You can't scare someone in to belief in Jesus. I would say what it does take but I don't want to be accused of prosyltizing :). Unfortunatly there are those who will continue to tell somebody something they obviously don't want to hear and a nurse who does this is out of line. But it would be wrong to say all nurses should never talk about (fill in the blank) b/c Nurse Clueless abused her privilege. Some pts are comforted when nurses pray w/ them and take care of their spiritual needs (as the pt directs). I have Muslim friends and if I ask them a question and they give me an answer that reflects their Muslim beliefs it's b/c they're Muslim, not b/c they are trying to convert me to a belief in Islam (though I'm sure at least some of them would be delighted if that happened). Also, I know they think I am an infidel destined for hell :devil:, but they like me and treat me w/ respect anyway and that's all that matters to me. Please don't be offended that a Christian thinks you're going to hell (by Christian definition it's the separation from God), it's not b/c s/he thinks s/he is better than you ( "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" ) it is b/c they sincerly believe there are certain things that must be done to go to heaven.

Hi Fronkey Bean,

I really enjoy this post. Having never grown up with a particular religion, I tend to respond to religious ideology in a very black and white sort of way. But I have had a few conversations that have informed me more of the complexity of the subject, and this is one of them. My general response to Christian ideology tends to be somewhat negative--back when I was a reckless teen I had numerous people "witness" to me, and I found their message of unconditional love/you must be saved from the fires of hell confusing and disturbing. I actively chose to NOT pursue Christian faith because of the lack of acceptance of GLBT people. It seemed both condescending and hypocritical. But then a good friend of mine who is a lesbian and married to her partner converted to Catholocism. I asked her how she feels about that when many members of her church don't accept her for who she is, she told me that that is a price she is willing to pay for a religion that she loves.

I am also married to a man who grew up Catholic--very Catholic in fact. His family thought he would become a priest--he was very contemplative as a kid, read everything he could get his hands on, had a relationship with nature that was deep and innocent and profound. But along his path, and through his love of life and thought, he learned that he wasn't actually Catholic. He respects the religion--enough to understand that it is not what he believes.

So, when you say that "hell" is, definitionally, a separation from God (not the fiery pits reserved for non-compliant sinners), I am once again realizing that this debate is not only religious, but also philosophical and cultural. If someone believes that I will be separated from a God that they believe in, that's ok with me. It leaves an opening for me to form my own beliefs--and if I want to devote my own faith in God, or nature, or in humanity, I can do that and my afterlife will be what it is--and does not necessarily contradict the beliefs of a Christian. I understand Christian culture as an American (which, in this day and age with Bush and war, etc. is very hard to digest), but I don't understand Christian culture from a Christian perspective. Now, I know that my friend who became catholic, and my husband's family who are all very religious, don't think I'm going to some fiery pit when I die. But I think, because of some of my other experiences with Christianity (I tried to become a Baptist for a summer in high school--that's when I learned that gay people were "loved" but still "going to hell"), I still respond to the concept of proselytizing nurses with suspicion.

You know, as long as my nurse respects me for who I am, and does not maintain a condescending belief that I "need to be saved," (which is inherently disrespectful), then I am open to religious discussion--on equal grounds. I appreciate that my in-laws pray for me. I like being in their thoughts. That's my interpretation of their kindness.

Thanks for giving me something to think about.

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Specializes in Neuro.

This has been a great thread, with lots of discussion for and against prayer, Christianity, and so forth. I appreciate all who have offerered their views and advice. But...since this is such a passionate and contraversial subject, I have offered enough of my opinions. I don't think that it has mattered one way or another to the OP, and nothing I or any other Christian says (or types!!!) will change that. Therefore, I leave this particular thread to you all!! It has been my pleasure, and I hope you all have a great day~

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To further clarify, in my last assignment (where I worked for nearly a year), the hospital had a hospice unit adjacent to their oncology floor. It was considered a separate entity from the hospital (moving a patient to that unit required d/c'ing them from the hospital and admitting them to the hospice). It was set up primarily to transition the person to home hospice care, although some did return on occasion for more acute care (or if the family and patient so desired). I DID work there (either exclusively on the hospice unit, or combined with other patients admitted to the hospital's oncology unit), so I suppose I could say I have worked hospice. We were under the direction of the hospice administrator while working there.

But it was in an inpatient setting of sorts, and I was an employee of the hospital where it was based; I was not an employee of the hospice that contracted the beds, and did not provide care in the home.

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Specializes in Med-Surg.
Sometimes "I'll pray for you" is actually code words for "I think you are so pathetic in your opinions and lifestyle that you definately need prayers". I've had people say that with a look of pity and derision on their face, as if I were a lower lifeform. In other words, it can be a loaded statement or question, or can be interpreted that way by others.

As a gay man I've gotten the "I'll pray for you borther....." more times than I can count. Trust me I didn't interpret it well at all as it was spat out with disgust, or at the least judgement and disdain. My response has always been "and I'll definately be praying for you.":angryfire

I have been hurt by Christians in the past many times, but certainly don't judge the religion or it's people. I'm going to a Christian school for one thing. I've been a devout Christian myself for many years, and I know the Bible. (I'm currently not identified with the Christian faith.) I certainly don't think the mention of Jesus is preachy and non-Christians perhaps have gotten a bit pc and touchy. However, I certainly am not going to buy into the idea that Christians are persecuted in this country or that they've been perscuted for the last 2000 years.

"Lighten up" has always been a phrase that has bothered me (I've discussed in a few other threads in days gone by) please don't ever use it on me.

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Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.

You have been hurt by some Christians and I am sorry that you were. I have been hurt by non-Christians on occ. I had one proclaim loudly in front of my co-workers that I had no right to believe what I believe just b/c he picked up my Christian mag. (which had been laying facedown on the counter) and didn't like it's content. Luckily I don't think all non-religious people are rude jerks just b/c this one was. All Christians are not pushy either. You have encountered some that were but not all of us are like that.

I didn't say that I'd ever been hurt by a Christian. I did say that I've witnessed some pushy ones, but never said or implied that I thought that of all Christians. It is better to stick with what people say rather than jumping to conclusions about what they think, particularly when they are strangers on a bulletin board.

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This has been a great thread, with lots of discussion for and against prayer, Christianity, and so forth. I appreciate all who have offerered their views and advice. But...since this is such a passionate and contraversial subject, I have offered enough of my opinions. I don't think that it has mattered one way or another to the OP, and nothing I or any other Christian says (or types!!!) will change that. Therefore, I leave this particular thread to you all!! It has been my pleasure, and I hope you all have a great day~
It is a controversial subject, and to be honest, I'm pleasantly surprised at how civil (although passionate) the discussion has been. As has been pointed out several times, I think it's a general consensus here that no nurse should be 'forcing' or coercing a patient to listen to their beliefs. I suppose the disagreement lies in where the line is drawn, and how far a nurse can go before that line is crossed.

I haven't read into the posts as being anti-Christian. I am a Christian, but would have responded the same had the nurse in question been Jewish, Muslim, whatever.

Very interesting thread.

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It is very presumptuous to say to a pt. "I will pray for you" if the pt did not ask you to do so. Don't be so sure you wouldn't get into trouble; people of many faith backgrounds go to Catholic hospitals, not just Catholics and other Christians.

Always ask yourself, "Whose needs am I meeting?" If a pt didn't ask you to pray for him and you say "I'll pray for you," odds are, you're thinking of yourself.

I wonder if I can offer something I *DO* say to patients? When there's a moment where it looks like the patient can benefit from it, I always say, "I'll be keeping you in my thoughts today" or "I'll be thinking about you later" (as in, if they're having surgery, and are worried).

I never offered to pray for them. I never would, and never have once been asked, BUT I have ALWAYS gotten smiles and thanks when I have told them that I would be thinking about them.....sometimes, I think that's all people really want. Someone to be caring about them and remembering them. And no prayers were needed :)

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You know something Jls,

You posted previously that the more you thought about it, the more hacked off you were getting about what this coworker was doing. She is, according to you, no longer working where you work, so what does it matter to you? I think that you really need to be more concerned with your job and what you need to be doing than focusing on what a "former" coworker said, in a conversation that you were not even a part of, that you had overheard.

Ouch. This was highly uncalled for, and quite disrespectful. 'Blessed', I see you are not even a nursing student yet....? Perhaps it would be wise for you to avoid telling a working nurse what she should and shouldn't be paying attention to in her job and at her place of employment. I see absolutely nothing wrong in jls's concerns, and they show alot more concern for the patients' wellbeing than some of the posts I've read here today. Your inability to see "why it matters" to her might be something to address as well.

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As a gay man I've gotten the "I'll pray for you borther....." more times than I can count. Trust me I didn't interpret it well at all as it was spat out with disgust, or at the least judgement and disdain. My response has always been "and I'll definately be praying for you.":angryfire

I read somewhere in this thread that a poster "didn't need anyone's permission" to pray for someone, that they could do it whenever they saw the need for G-d's intervention. I honestly never thought about that before, and it completely creeps me out. The idea that someone could be thinking "that poor person, I'm going to go pray for her/him now to accept Jesus/come to G-d/give up a life of perversions" unnerves me quite a bit.

Obviously no one has control over what other people think about us, and what they might tell others in confidence, but just the IDEA that someone could presume to use "prayer time" as a way to get a Divine Intervention for what THEY see as appropriate for me.....wow. I get why they'd do it....but man, I hope no one's praying "for" me like that!!

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You know something Jls,

You posted previously that the more you thought about it, the more hacked off you were getting about what this coworker was doing. She is, according to you, no longer working where you work, so what does it matter to you? I think that you really need to be more concerned with your job and what you need to be doing than focusing on what a "former" coworker said, in a conversation that you were not even a part of, that you had overheard.

Just like what fronkey bean posted: why does it seem like every time Christ's name is mentioned, it gets taken out of context, people accuse you of preaching to them, claims that it is wrong and bans us from discussing it? Doesn't seem quite right. But, that is how we have been treated for thousands of years, and how we will continue to be treated. I just wonder what non believers would do if they were treated the same as what we have been... :uhoh21:

And yes, about praying in silence, I am...!!!

In fairness, she wouldn't be human if she didn't care about what nurses were doing to their patients. We are all responsible for nurses' following our code of ethics.

As far as Christians being banned from discussing religion.... I don't get this one. I don't see Christians being persecuted in our society. The USA has to be one of the most Christian nations in the world. I get to hear about Jesus and God ALL the time without ever seeking that out. I go to work and plenty of people talk about church. No one gets in trouble for it. The only time it's ever an issue is if they can't respect someone else saying they don't want to discuss religion (not their church activities, not what they are doing with their church next weekend, but actual religious discussions). Some of us aren't interested in hearing about why we should love Jesus and I'm personally really not interested in explaining why I'm not a Christian and could never be a Christian to my coworkers. If I'm honest about it, they could be hurt by my answer and I don't want that. To continue to bring it up again and again and again at work with people who don't want to discuss it is simply unprofessional. It would be no different that discussing your sex life or your political views. If you're discussing why you became a nurse and said "My Christian faith guided me to it", that would likely not bother anyone. Discussion like that isn't banned anywhere I've worked and I'm in the Liberal/pc land of California. You sound like you understand the difference between appropriate and inappropriate religious discussion, so I don't think you should be worried you won't be able to ever mention religion at work.

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Specializes in LTC.

But isn't it amazing how often you hear that ? To quote Jon Stewart , " Exactly HOW MUCH of the world has to revolve around you people ?" As opposed to parts of the world where the persecution is very real.

PS I am a Christian.

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