"The Jesus Factor"

Updated:   Published

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

precisely, luvschool.

personally?

i have many Christian friends who have tried to convert me.

the only thing i learned is that:

- i would never go around to people, wagging my finger and threatening eternal damnation if i am not saved.

i didn't WANT a savior who gave an either/or ultimatum.

- and that if Jesus was the epitome of love, grace and peace, said savior would NOT be giving said ultimatums; that He would/should be leading by example.

it's comforting to read the very few posts, stating that Jesus DID want to lead by example.

i'm still 'put off' by ultimatums.

definitely an obstacle in my spiritual quest.

i would welcome any Christian telling me that i'm going to Heaven, regardless of whether i have accepted Jesus as the Son of God, or not.

i have a profoundly loving, intimate and quiet relationship with my God.

'our' relationship has only been defined by the journey He and i have traveled together.

not by dogma; not by gospel or evangelizing; not by intimidation.

but by love, trust, faith, exploration, conversations (with God)...all of these have led me to where i am with Him today.

because of what i've learned about only a small but powerful part of Christianity, i would love to hope i've been misinformed.

but the aggressive nature of my Christian experiences, compounded with the 'either/or' ultimatum, i think i may have lost out on some potently loving aspects of Christianity.

up until recently, i called myself a Christian...because of the way i live my life.

but it was my friends who told me i was not Christian, since i did not accept Jesus as my savior and as God's son.

fine.

i'm not Christian.

doesn't change my lifestyle.

but to me, something was amiss in this Christian education i've received.

my point being, actions will show the way and the light of day.

lead by example.

thanks, luvschoolnsg.

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.
most of the people there know that they are in hospice for 1 reason: to die. and hospice is where a lot of people end up becoming a christian.

i'm not even sure how to respond to this...

wow.

first of all, i think that is an incorrect, or rather, simplistic view of the purpose of hospice care. yes, patients who are in hospice are coming to the end of their life. but i strongly disagree with the statement that "they are in hospice for 1 reason: to die".

and as leslie pointed out, from her experience, the second part of that statement isn't true either. i've never worked hospice, but have worked closely with hospice nurses and caretakers and have cared for hospice clients; my mother was also a client of our hospice. purely anecdotal, to be sure, but i believe that statement to be false as well.

to clarify, i have seen dying patients return to their religious roots in an effort to achieve spiritual peace, but as far as death-bed conversions? no, not really.

okay, you say that you have never worked in hospice before, but you can sit there and tell me that what i wrote was incorrect. and you are correct in your knowledge because...? why? where i live, any time you hear the word hospice, you know that it is where the terminally ill patients go to finish out their lives, mainly very heavily medicated, until they pass on. reworded, that is where they go to die. plain and simple. if it is different where you live, so be it. but please, do not try to tell me that i am wrong.

like i posted, my friend worked hospice/home health for many years, and she was always telling me how she led someone to christ right before they died, or how she was always praying with her patients. and no, she did not push herself on them. they willing asked her. i have been at the hospice where she worked and saw her on several occations talking with people. she never pushed, she always let them lead the conversation. there are certain people, who, being children of god, have a way about them that lets people know that they are christian. she is that way. so she never has to tell people that she is christian, it just shows.

as far as your comment here, "...to clarify, i have seen dying patients return to their religious roots in an effort to achieve spiritual peace, but as far as death-bed conversions? no, not really." again, it depends on your own location. i am in the heart of the bible belt, so yes, we do have a lot of people who do turn to christ when they are on their deathbed. or as you say, return to their christian roots.

either way, please don't presume to think that you know what goes on where i am just because things may be different where you are, or because you see things differently.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessed061987 viewpost.gif

I look forward to being the same way when I graduate. I by no means plan on preaching to my patients, BUT, I will let them know that I will pray for them and am there IF they need someone to talk to.

I guess I am thankful that the hospital I plan on working at is a Catholic based hospital. I don't see myself getting into too much trouble for being a Christian, if you happen to report me!

Ah.....I was just going to suggest that there are many hospitals where it is acceptable to for nursing staff to announce their faith and offer to pray with their patients. Florida Hospital where I'm getting my RN to BSN is a Christian operated hospital The nursing students there are required in their clinicals to offer to pray with patients.

Thank you Tweety.

I appreciate the comment. I know that there are a lot of faith based hospitals out there that do not mind the staff praying with the patients.

On the other hand, I don't know that I agree with the hospital "requiring the nurses to offer to pray," but I think that it is nice that they have the option to FREELY pray without consequences. I just think that somewhere down the road, someone is going to stir up trouble for the hospital if they require the nurses to do that. Unfortunately, it happens all to often.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
either way, please don't presume to think that you know what goes on where i am just because things may be different where you are, or because you see things differently.

blessed, i am the poster who disagreed w/you re: the quantity of deathbed conversions.

but you have a very valid point.

living in the bible belt, your friend would have experienced what you stated.

and i am sorry.

i'm always learning something.

with peace,

leslie

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.
it is very presumptuous to say to a pt. "i will pray for you" if the pt did not ask you to do so. don't be so sure you wouldn't get into trouble; people of many faith backgrounds go to catholic hospitals, not just catholics and other christians.

always ask yourself, "whose needs am i meeting?" if a pt didn't ask you to pray for him and you say "i'll pray for you," odds are, you're thinking of yourself.

again, you will do very well to read the post in its context. no where in my post did i say that i would pray for someone without their permission. i wrote, and i quote "i by no means plan on preaching to my patients, but, i will let them know that i will pray for them and am there if they need someone to talk to." if they need someone to talk to. that means: if they ask me to pray for them, i will.

on the other hand, as a christian, i can pray for anyone, any time, any where, without their permission!!! praying is a part of being a christian.

if i fail to pray where i saw god's inntervention needed, then how could i call myself a christian, a child of god?

i am not saying that i am going to go and pray out loud to all these patients, and make them listen to what i have to say, i am saying that i can still pray for them regardless of where i am, with or without their knowledge. if you say that i am just thinking of myself, so be it. i am also thinking about that patient.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Jesus did tell people to pray in private and not make a big show out of praying. That's because of the human tendency towards being prideful showoffs, and using religion as a vehicle for ego gratification. So, it's probably better to just pray silently for people rather than making an announcement to them that you will pray for them, when they never asked for it and might find it intrusive, presumptuous, and/or offensive.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.
blessed, i am the poster who disagreed w/you re: the quantity of deathbed conversions.

but you have a very valid point.

living in the bible belt, your friend would have experienced what you stated.

and i am sorry.

i'm always learning something.

with peace,

leslie

leslie,

that is what makes this thread so interesting!! the various views. as i stated before, christianity is a very touchy subject, and it is nice to be able to agree to disagree!! i appreciate your apology. :wink2:

thing is, we all do live in various places and what goes on in one place may be totally different in another.

apology accepted, and again, appreciation is given!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
"I'll be praying for you" is the Christian equivalent of a non religious person saying "I'll be thinking of you". I may not have asked my non religious nurse/friend/whatever to think of me but it is nice to know someone is. I certainly wouldn't be offended by it. It is part of who they are. It is their nature to want to think something good will happen for me. If I find that offensive then I am just looking for offense. I Christian who offers to pray is just expressing part of their nature in the same way, it is who they are. Why would even an atheist find offense here. To his/her mind some nut job is talking to the air for them. What is offensive about that? People walk around looking for reasons to get offended at other people. I think we all (Christian and nonChristian)need to lighten up a little.

It's offensive because you are presuming that person wants you to pray for him/her. And there are so many variations of belief even in Christianity, that what you may believe as a Christian may not be acceptable for another Christian.

To say "lighten up" is just being dismissive of the other person's beliefs, and is equally insensitive.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

okay, you say that you have never worked in hospice before, but you can sit there and tell me that what i wrote was incorrect. and you are correct in your knowledge because...? why? where i live, any time you hear the word hospice, you know that it is where the terminally ill patients go to finish out their lives, mainly very heavily medicated, until they pass on. reworded, that is where they go to die. plain and simple. if it is different where you live, so be it. but please, do not try to tell me that i am wrong.

like i posted, my friend worked hospice/home health for many years, and she was always telling me how she led someone to christ right before they died, or how she was always praying with her patients. and no, she did not push herself on them. they willing asked her. i have been at the hospice where she worked and saw her on several occations talking with people. she never pushed, she always let them lead the conversation. there are certain people, who, being children of god, have a way about them that lets people know that they are christian. she is that way. so she never has to tell people that she is christian, it just shows.

as far as your comment here, "...to clarify, i have seen dying patients return to their religious roots in an effort to achieve spiritual peace, but as far as death-bed conversions? no, not really." again, it depends on your own location. i am in the heart of the bible belt, so yes, we do have a lot of people who do turn to christ when they are on their deathbed. or as you say, return to their christian roots.

either way, please don't presume to think that you know what goes on where i am just because things may be different where you are, or because you see things differently.

i apologize for the bluntness of my above post. it truly wasn't mean to attack you in any way.

as far as how i can say such, i explained that in my post; although i haven't worked hospice, i have 24 years of caring for oncology patients and have worked alongside hospice nurses and caretakers, i have taken care of hospice patients; in addition our unit worked closely with our hospice to provide continuity of care, and our director of inpatient oncology is their medical director. all but a handful of their employees have been co-workers of mine.

i have experienced the same in my short time traveling and working for other oncology units. so while i don't have the experience of being specifically an employee of a hospice, i do have the experience as i mentioned above. i'm very much aware of how it "works". and as i said, i also have personal experience with my own mother (and other family members for that matter) in hospice.

yes, hospice is for people at the end of their life. i still think that to say "they are in hospice for 1 reason: to die" is a rather simplistic view of hospice' mission. that isn't intended to be a slam at you in particular. it's just not how i view the mission of hospice care.

i am in the heart of the bible belt, so yes, we do have a lot of people who do turn to christ when they are on their deathbed. or as you say, return to their christian roots.
i don't consider a return to their spiritual roots (regardless of belief) a "conversion".

i have practiced (with the exception of a short time in "amish country" pa last year) in the south. i spent most of my years in nursing in the mountains of sw va. very conservative, very fundamentalist, very much a part of the 'bible belt'.

again, i have no problem with someone attending to the spiritual needs of person (and their family) when facing death. in my opinion, that is a major part of the dying process. it must be client centered and approached very carefully by the nurse, regardless of the nurse's beliefs. and this is where the hospice chaplain or spiritual counselor needs to be involved to assure that it remains client centered.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
I think some groups of people have been hurt in the name of Christianity, therefore might have a kneejerk reaction to hearing the name of Jesus. I know my parents endured quite a bit of Anti-Semitism growing up which imbedded in them a cultural bias against Christianity. My mother had snowballs hurled at her when she was a little girl, and was called 'Jewgirl'. Wounds like that lead to this type of hypersensitivity.

I can totally understand this. I was "the wrong kind of Christian" and paid for it, too.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.
jesus did tell people to pray in private and not make a big show out of praying. that's because of the human tendency towards being prideful showoffs, and using religion as a vehicle for ego gratification. so, it's probably better to just pray silently for people rather than making an announcement to them that you will pray for them, when they never asked for it and might find it intrusive, presumptuous, and/or offensive.

you know something jls,

you posted previously that the more you thought about it, the more hacked off you were getting about what this coworker was doing. she is, according to you, no longer working where you work, so what does it matter to you? i think that you really need to be more concerned with your job and what you need to be doing than focusing on what a "former" coworker said, in a conversation that you were not even a part of, that you had overheard.

just like what fronkey bean posted:

...how come every time a christian even mentions the name of jesus some one accuses you of "preaching" at them? ... i am talking about a part of my life that excites me. if you don't want to hear me talk about it, o.k., i can deal w/ that (i may not want to hear about your trip to paris or whatever) but i shouldn't be banned from talking about it just b/c you don't like it.

... i just get tired of being told i don't have the right to express my world view in public. no one tells an atheist to leave their non religious views at home. in fact, by denying people of faith the right to discuss this important part of their lives, we are defaulting to an atheistc world view and telling people of faith that their views have no validity and that they are wrong to express them outside a place of worship,

why does it seem like every time christ's name is mentioned, it gets taken out of context, people accuse you of preaching to them, claims that it is wrong and bans us from discussing it? doesn't seem quite right. but, that is how we have been treated for thousands of years, and how we will continue to be treated. i just wonder what non believers would do if they were treated the same as what we have been... :uhoh21:

and yes, about praying in silence, i am...!!!

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Neuro.

Thank you, Emmanuel. Point taken. I appreciate your responses and clarifications.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion