"The Jesus Factor"

Updated:   Published

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in DOU.

Just like what fronkey bean posted: why does it seem like every time Christ's name is mentioned, it gets taken out of context, people accuse you of preaching to them, claims that it is wrong and bans us from discussing it? Doesn't seem quite right. But, that is how we have been treated for thousands of years, and how we will continue to be treated. I just wonder what non believers would do if they were treated the same as what we have been... :uhoh21:

And yes, about praying in silence, I am...!!!

I would like to respectfully suggest that you take the opportunity to study up a bit about the history of Christianity, because your post demonstrates a huge gap in your education. If you understood Christian history over the last 2000 years, you might better understand why other people (non-Christians) don't always want to hear about it.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.
I would like to respectfully suggest that you take the opportunity to study up a bit about the history of Christianity, because your post demonstrates a huge gap in your education. If you understood Christian history over the last 2000 years, you might better understand why other people (non-Christians) don't always want to hear about it.

Good point. Yes, Christians are persecuted in some parts of the world, but in the United States we do a pretty good job regarding freedom to practice religion as we see fit. I'm thankful to live here. This really is a marvelous nation.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

This is a fascinating discussion! I'm really enjoying reading all of these well presented points of view.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

Other people have also been banned from expressing their religious beliefs, also; this has NOT been limited to Christianity.

For example, I do not wear my pentagram necklace to the hospital or home I go to as a nurse because it may make people think that I am a worshipper of Satan. Most Pagans do not acknowledge Satan at all, but because of the respect that I have for the patients I care for, I do not wish to have them fear me. I do not worship Satan or any dark force; however, once a person views the pentagram, it may interfere with their healing because of the assumption. I have encountered some patients, who are not even comfortable when they see a health care professional wearing the cross because of their personal interpetation of what that cross means to them. Not everyone views Christianity as a positive influence in their lives. Being a Pagan was my PERSONAL choice. Now, my philosophy from my personal beliefs affect how I practice nursing because we are taught to learn and study all religions and to respect other faiths and cultures. I believe in karma, and whatever energy I render will come back to me three-fold, so, I try to give the best nursing care that I can under the circumstances provided. But, I do not push this on the patients, families or the staff that I work with because it is ethically wrong to me. It is infusing guilt to a person that is in the most vulnerable position of their lives to have them even think that their right to care will be tarnished by a judgmental nurse, physician or any other medical professional and it adds more stress to them.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I would like to respectfully suggest that you take the opportunity to study up a bit about the history of Christianity, because your post demonstrates a huge gap in your education. If you understood Christian history over the last 2000 years, you might better understand why other people (non-Christians) don't always want to hear about it.

I totally agree with that statement; what history says, verses what any religious text states is, in fact, different.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ICU;CCU;Telemetry;L&D;Hospice;ER/Trauma;.

I have learned so much from you all.

What I have learned from you all is your committment to your patients being tantamount, and your zeal for your own spiritual enrichment is held in your hearts....

You are all great people....and Allah, or God, or Yaweh, or Buddha, or goddess, or whomever you recognize as a higher power, if you do, would be proud of your dedication to your patients.....

I am thankful for you....and if it's okay to say this here,

I will think of you this week as I work....

blessings, crni

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
I have learned so much from you all.

What I have learned from you all is your committment to your patients being tantamount, and your zeal for your own spiritual enrichment is held in your hearts....

You are all great people....and Allah, or God, or Yaweh, or Buddha, or goddess, or whomever you recognize as a higher power, if you do, would be proud of your dedication to your patients.....

I am thankful for you....and if it's okay to say this here,

I will think of you this week as I work....

blessings, crni

Thanks for your wonderful words. It is true, our varied life and spiritual experiences should lead us all to be the best nurses that we can be. The spiritual side that we each hold on to is what we need for OURSELVES while we take care of the patients during challenging times. It is that power that we turn to to gain our own personal strength.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
First of all, I think that is an incorrect, or rather, simplistic view of the purpose of hospice care. Yes, patients who are in hospice are coming to the end of their life. But I strongly disagree with the statement that "they are in hospice for 1 reason: to die".

And as leslie pointed out, from her experience, the second part of that statement isn't true either. I've never worked hospice, but have worked closely with hospice nurses and caretakers and have cared for hospice clients; my mother was also a client of our hospice. Purely anecdotal, to be sure, but I believe that statement to be false as well.

To clarify, I have seen dying patients return to their religious roots in an effort to achieve spiritual peace, but as far as death-bed conversions? No, not really.

OH, ok, I see some of what you are saying concerning the first part of the question.

But concerning the second part, isn't it really more about the patient than the caregiver.....it doesn't matter if the caregiver believes in deathbed conversion or not....if the patient has an experience and believes that he/she has found God.....what THEY experience is what matters to them..

Who cares whether or not the caregiver believes the patient had a deathbed conversion or experience or whether or not it is true.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
FYI - I have heard this too. Assumptions that I have been 'hurt by Christians'. Actually, that statement can be irritating. It doesn't necessarily have to do with hurt. It can be a reflex due to irritation from the recruiting aspect and intrusiveness that some of us have experienced from Christians. It makes assumptions and violates boundaries in a mild way, compared to the other tactics we have been discussing. The statement, as I have heard it, easily implies that if someone only shared Jesus with you without 'hurting' you - you would be more receptive and get 'right' with God.

So I wouldn't recommend saying to someone who has made their discomfort known at discussion of Christianity - "I'm sorry you have been hurt by Christians." This is getting into splitting hairs a bit - but that kind of statement can be read as not respecting one's objections and privacy. It can imply that one doesn't believe in Jesus because they have been hurt by Christians. This lacks respect for the other person's beliefs.

I meant hurt in the way described by the example - having been irritated by a pushy person. I made no assumptions,the poster SAID she had encountered pushy Christians. I made no implication that you should have Christ shared w/ you more gently so that you would be less irritated. I wasn't even talking about sharing Christ, I was talking about not judging one Christian (or non Christian) by the actions of another. I have made my views on sharing Christ w/ people who don't want to hear it very clear.

I was speaking to Mercy about a specific situation in which she was not treated w/ respect. As I explained, in a similar situation, I found that hurtful. Thus the "you have been hurt".

As you use the phrase "some of us have experienced" it appears you have also had an encounter w/ a pushy Christian. It was disrespectful of that person to try to witness to you if you were not willing to hear. However, it wasn't me. Why assume I have some ulterior motive (getting set up for "another try") other than the one I clearly stated? That is looking for offense and certainly if you look for offense you will be offended.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
This is a primo ex. of someone looking for offense. I meant hurt in the way described by the example - having been irritated by a pushy person. I made no assumptions,the poster SAID she had encountered pushy Christians. I made no implication that you should have Christ shared w/ you more gently so that you would be less irritated. I wasn't even talking about sharing Christ, I was talking about not judging one Christian (or non Christian) by the actions of another. I have made my views on sharing Christ w/ people who don't want to hear it very clear.

I was speaking to Mercy about a specific situation in which she was not treated w/ respect. As I explained, in a similar situation, I found that hurtful. Thus the "you have been hurt".

As you use the phrase "some of us have experienced" it appears you have also had an encounter w/ a pushy Christian. It was disrespectful of that person to try to witness to you if you were not willing to hear. However, it wasn't me. Why assume I have some ulterior motive (getting set up for "another try") other than the one I clearly stated? That is looking for offense and crtainly if you look for offense you will be offended.

It's too bad that you perceive my thoughts and feelings as "looking for offense."

For years, I've seen literature from Evangelical circles and heard statements from several Evangelical mega pastors that people reject Christianity because they have been 'hurt by Christians.' So there is more behind those words than first glance, to the uninitiated. It is a common conversation among many Evangelicals, the 'hurt by Christians' talk. Besides, it is assuming what you do not know.

Hearing those words is like saying, "You would believe, except for being hurt by the messengers." It can be disrespectful towards those who believe otherwise -for reasons than have to do with the message and not the messengers.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

Maybe people reject Christianity because it doesn't make sense to them intellectually. They might think it's bizarre that God would be divided into three parts, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and would send a part of himself, the Son aspect of his tri-polar personality, to be offered as a sacrificial lamb for the sins of all of humanity. They might find the Bible a perplexing document, with strange rituals described in it that sound superstitious and rooted in the unenlighted mythology of an ancient tribe of people who wandered through the desert, and invented a system of writing to chronicle their history on crude scrolls, and proclaim their writings to be from the one true God.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in ED, ICU, PACU.
But for my co-worker, a deathbed born again experience will save the patient from the fires of hell, so I think she thinks she is doing what is the right thing. In her belief system I think there's no way around this, the patient will go immediately to hell without some sort of acceptance of Jesus as savior. It puts my nurse friend in a awful spot. I'm glad I don't believe that, it must be awful. How could you not want to convert someone if you thought that? Within her belief system she is doing the right thing, even if it technically violates another ethical system.

I think that her problem lies with her belief system making judgements only reserved for God. No matter how good intentioned she may be, it is not for her (or anyone else) to impose a condition for a soul to enter Heaven, Hell or purgatory! She obviously doesn't place that much trust in the power of personal prayer and the mercy of her Savior; and, is taking too much responsiblity upon herself for the disposition of another's soul.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Join the Discussion