"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in ICU;CCU;Telemetry;L&D;Hospice;ER/Trauma;.

I wonder what the "fallout" might be, if, for instance, we were talking about a radical Muslim proselytizing while nursing....or say a member of Syung Moon's church, or maybe one from Aton Levey's Church of Satan in San Francisco???? I dare say, I believe the tolerance level would plummet. This is precisely why we shouldn't bang on this door.

I liked what one poster said when she gave her very personal experience in a less than stellar hospitalization. Often as Christians, I have noticed that when opportunity is staring them straight in the face, they seem to miss it, because they have their OWN agenda, recipe, or whatever to follow, and all gets lost in the shuffle. Had the poster received her pain medications, been ministered to physically first, and had her needs met, she might just have been a bit more receptive to other points of healing in her life.....the examples that Christ gave in His own life to us was just that.....HEALING and meeting the need of the individual before conviction of sin in their life....

I think it is completely arrogant and not even Biblically supported to do otherwise. Yes, "go and preach the gospel to all nations"....but HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED?? By telling people "well, I got the Jesus Factor all squared away!"? I try to imagine St. Paul running up to Timothy in Cyprus and saying the same thing.....I am thinkin' that might have put a damper on the advancement of the faith at that point.

This nurse may well be an 'awesome, awesome' nurse, but she lacks spiritual maturity. A mature Christian knows how to put her own self to the side, and "wait on the Lord".... Timing is everything. The key to converting others is to first respect them as human beings.

;)

As for some who are expressing complaint that when anyone mentions Christian ideas or values, that there is a backlash toward them.....

didn't Christ tell you this would happen??

"Many will persecute you for My name's sake...."

Don't whine about it...".give them your other cheek also...." that is what sets you apart from the rest of the herd.....;)

It's all part of growing up....spiritually. crni

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Leslie, I pretty much think that is everyones opinion. I think the only discussion has been whether it should be allowed even if pt.directed.

it seems to me it has been most everyone's opinion..

i was just referring to a couple of posts who expressed disdain/shock in what they were reading.

i haven't seen it myself.

leslie

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Specializes in LTC.

I think maybe the difference is that no one would interpret that as you encouraging them to leave their husband and marry yours. Or to abandon their own children and adopt yours. Somehow, talking about religion just seems as if it's " yours vs. mine " a lot of the time , and it's a real shame.

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Specializes in LTC, Med/Surg, Peds, ICU, Tele.

If the patient asks for spiritual help from the nurse, they've indicated that they want guidance from her. She could then tell the patient how Jesus Christ has changed her own life. If the patient brings it up, I think it's okay. I wonder how we would be expected to chart about that?

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
It seems to you that everyone expects that? Is it at all possible that you're overstating the situation just a wee bit? I haven't seen anyone say that they expect anything of you. I can't speak for what other people are buying into (to be honest, either can you), but I also haven't seen anyone talk about crazy or hypocritical Christians (pushy ones, yes, but in my case, I'm speaking from personal experience, not from anything I've seen on the TV).

I overstated, sorry. Did not mean to accuse all who disagree w/ me of thinking ill of Christians.

I was speaking about those who think every time someone mentions the name of Jesus they are "preaching". I love my husband and talk about him and the things he does often. I am not "preaching" about him, it would just be almost impossible to talk about my life w/o mentioning him several times. I also love Jesus and, as He is an important part of my life, I talk about Him frequently. I'm not "prreaching" I am just talking about what is going onin my life and He factors in to that.

You have been hurt by some Christians and I am sorry that you were. I have been hurt by non-Christians on occ. I had one proclaim loudly in front of my co-workers that I had no right to believe what I believe just b/c he picked up my Christian mag. (which had been laying facedown on the counter) and didn't like it's content. Luckily I don't think all non-religious people are rude jerks just b/c this one was. All Christians are not pushy either. You have encountered some that were but not all of us are like that.

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
If an atheist, or any other 'ism', 'theist', etc. brings his/her views to the workplace and can't focus on the patient's needs, then I think he/she SHOULD be told to leave their 'views at home'.

I don't see it as 'defaulting to an atheistic world view' by telling people that there is a time and a place to express one's beliefs. What is most important in our profession is focusing on the patient's needs. If a patient requests that the nurse 'pray' with or for him/her, that's a direct request from the patient that we can accomodate by either granting the request ourselves, or finding a clergy member or church member of the pateint's faith to grant the request. It is possible (and I would argue in most cases the 'right' thing to do) to carry on one's work without expressing verbally our beliefs. It's not just the words that define the 'Christian' (or whatever religion you believe in) it's also the actions of his/her life.

If a pt asks me why I became a nurse and I say I felt God called me, there are some who would say I shouldn't say that to a pt. I would have to deny my faith to answer this question w/o bringing my faith into it. I would have to default to the position that God had nothing to do w/ it. That is asking me to leave my world view at home and adopt a non-religious view while out in public. I'm not talking about preaching or witnessing, I am talking about day-to-day conversations.

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
I wonder what the "fallout" might be, if, for instance, we were talking about a radical Muslim proselytizing while nursing....or say a member of Syung Moon's church, or maybe one from Aton Levey's Church of Satan in San Francisco???? I dare say, I believe the tolerance level would plummet. This is precisely why we shouldn't bang on this door.

I liked what one poster said when she gave her very personal experience in a less than stellar hospitalization. Often as Christians, I have noticed that when opportunity is staring them straight in the face, they seem to miss it, because they have their OWN agenda, recipe, or whatever to follow, and all gets lost in the shuffle. Had the poster received her pain medications, been ministered to physically first, and had her needs met, she might just have been a bit more receptive to other points of healing in her life.....the examples that Christ gave in His own life to us was just that.....HEALING and meeting the need of the individual before conviction of sin in their life....

I think it is completely arrogant and not even Biblically supported to do otherwise. Yes, "go and preach the gospel to all nations"....but HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED?? By telling people "well, I got the Jesus Factor all squared away!"? I try to imagine St. Paul running up to Timothy in Cyprus and saying the same thing.....I am thinkin' that might have put a damper on the advancement of the faith at that point.

This nurse may well be an 'awesome, awesome' nurse, but she lacks spiritual maturity. A mature Christian knows how to put her own self to the side, and "wait on the Lord".... Timing is everything. The key to converting others is to first respect them as human beings.

;)

As for some who are expressing complaint that when anyone mentions Christian ideas or values, that there is a backlash toward them.....

didn't Christ tell you this would happen??

"Many will persecute you for My name's sake...."

Don't whine about it...".give them your other cheek also...." that is what sets you apart from the rest of the herd.....;)

It's all part of growing up....spiritually. crni

Again, I think we all agree Proselytizing is wrong. I think though that the key to converting others is to not try to convert others. People may come to believe what you do if you give a loving answer when asked. I don't think people get converted b/c we brilliantly present a flawless argument for any belief.

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
I think maybe the difference is that no one would interpret that as you encouraging them to leave their husband and marry yours. Or to abandon their own children and adopt yours. Somehow, talking about religion just seems as if it's " yours vs. mine " a lot of the time , and it's a real shame.

You are so right. When I talk about Jesus I do not mean that i think you are a bad/inferior person if you do not belive what I believe. It saddens me to think that some people think that of me. I respect you all,no matter what your belief.

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Specializes in Cardiac Care, ICU.
If the patient asks for spiritual help from the nurse, they've indicated that they want guidance from her. She could then tell the patient how Jesus Christ has changed her own life. If the patient brings it up, I think it's okay. I wonder how we would be expected to chart about that?

Spiritual comfort (prayer) provided at pt.s request.

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Specializes in orthopaedics.

this is the exact thing that chaps my hide. to each his own but, to take advantage of someone in their dying moments is obsecene. we all have our own right to believe in the here after. how we choose to practice it and believe it is a choice.

to go door to door, room to room, patient to patient, (you get my drift) to "save" one from the gates of hell is just not for me. if a patient is dying and asks would you pray with me sure i will pray with them. i will even offer myself "is there a pastor you would like me to call?" sometimes in death just holding their hand knowing that they are not alone is enough.

i consider myself a very compassionate person and a christian but i will not go to great lengths to "convert" someone at anytime let alone during their dying days.

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Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
You have been hurt by some Christians and I am sorry that you were. I have been hurt by non-Christians on occ. I had one proclaim loudly in front of my co-workers that I had no right to believe what I believe just b/c he picked up my Christian mag. (which had been laying facedown on the counter) and didn't like it's content. Luckily I don't think all non-religious people are rude jerks just b/c this one was. All Christians are not pushy either. You have encountered some that were but not all of us are like that.

FYI - I have heard this too. Assumptions that I have been 'hurt by Christians'. Actually, that statement can be irritating. It doesn't necessarily have to do with hurt. It can be a reflex due to irritation from the recruiting aspect and intrusiveness that some of us have experienced from Christians. It makes assumptions and violates boundaries in a mild way, compared to the other tactics we have been discussing. The statement, as I have heard it, easily implies that if someone only shared Jesus with you without 'hurting' you - you would be more receptive and get 'right' with God.

So I wouldn't recommend saying to someone who has made their discomfort known at discussion of Christianity - "I'm sorry you have been hurt by Christians." This is getting into splitting hairs a bit - but that kind of statement can be read as not respecting one's objections and privacy. It can imply that one doesn't believe in Jesus because they have been hurt by Christians. This lacks respect for the other person's beliefs.

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Specializes in School Nursing.

This verse was mentioned in church this morning:

Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us. I Peter 2:12

The above made me think of this thread and how the question about "preaching" to patients or gaining "deathbed conversions" really maybe shouldn't be relavent to Christians. The above tells me that I should live my life so you can see, not preach at you so you can hear. God gives us free will and allows us to make a choice. As a Christian, I think I can best serve my patients, coworkers, community, etc. by living a life that is an example, and maybe people will want the love, joy peace that I have. I can preach to my kids not to use drugs all I want but my example will speak much louder.

Maybe that is where so many Christians go wrong...

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