Should mean people be allowed to be mean at work?

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So, I work on a fabulous unit, with mostly very nice people who respect each other and work well together. But, there is one nurse who is just plain mean. She says nasty things and complains about whoever happens to be not around. Her nasty things range from complaining about their work habits, to personal attacks about people's hair or shoes being ugly. When I was orienting, I was told by my preceptor, "That's just her personality". I guess, my feeling is that it's ok for her to be her not-nice self on her own time, but at work, she should tone it down and act like a professional. What do you all think?

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

"Being mean" is subjective. Sometimes people think I am being mean when I am being direct, because they are not used to people being direct with them. But I am direct with people when I think they are confident and secure, so it is truly a sign of respect from me. If I think someone is not secure about the topic I need to speak about I will add validations and warm fuzzies to my communication and thus be a little less direct.

I like people to confront me when I have hurt their feelings. It gives me a chance to apologize if I was being impatient, or oblivious to their needs. That happens sometimes, because I am human, it doesn't make me a mean person.

Going to management should be reserved for true bullying (like 15 people against one), true violence and out of control situations.

So far, the OP hasn't come up with any examples of personal attacks or bullying -- it just sounds like someone the OP doesn't like. Maybe she's direct or blunt. Maybe she doesn't like the shoes or hair of some of her colleagues. Maybe the OP is incapable of taking her communication without the rainbows and unicorns. Maybe the "mean nurse" has an extraordinarily stressful home life and cannot leave her emotions at home when she goes to work.

Unless the OP has gone out of her way to talk to this person about her own hurt feelings and encouraged others to do the same, she's not really doing anything about this "toxic" person except being mean herself.

Going to management is a big deal and should be reserved for true bullying . . . Not just random interactions that aren't as nice as the OP would like. As for the CNA that cried -- some people cry easily, and others cry as a form of intimidation. As in "You can't give ME negative feedback because I messed up all of the I & Os! I'll just cry, and then everyone will see how mean you're being to me." Sadly, that sort of thing actually works more these days, and the focus is on the "mean nurse" who insisted that the I & O's be done correctly instead of on the "poor victim" who messes them up day after day after day because she's too lazy to do them correctly.

Some people are easily intimidated, and there isn't much for the OP to do about that, either, except pray for them to grow a backbone.

If you DO go to management about a "mean nurse", I would hope that you would discuss specific behaviors that are making your job more difficult and not just a vague complaint about "meanness." In other words, you cannot complain that someone is "mean to you." You can, however, complain that "Kelly was reading a magazine while Lori and I were struggling with four patients between us who were incontinent on an hourly basis, required glucose checks and insulin titration every 20 minutes to one hour and one of whom was combative. When Kelly was asked for assistance with a glucose check, her response was to get up, pick up her magazine and disappear for an hour". Or "When I called the unit to notify the charge nurse that I would be late for work because flooding surrounded my house and I had to take the rowboat out to the highway, she raised her voice and called me a (bad word rhyming with "stuck")-ing loser who should have anticipating that the dam would overflow and gotten my (bad word) together before 5 AM."

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Specializes in Critical Care and ED.
Just out of curiosity, which personality disorder did your partner feel this woman had?

She was classic narcissistic personality disorder. She matched every single DSM-5 criteria:

  • Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
  • Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
  • Exaggerating your achievements and talents
  • Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
  • Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
  • Requiring constant admiration
  • Having a sense of entitlement
  • Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
  • Taking advantage of others to get what you want
  • Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
  • Being envious of others and believing others envy you
  • Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

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Specializes in adult psych, LTC/SNF, child psych.
She was classic narcissistic personality disorder. She matched every single DSM-5 criteria:

  • Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
  • Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
  • Exaggerating your achievements and talents
  • Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
  • Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
  • Requiring constant admiration
  • Having a sense of entitlement
  • Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
  • Taking advantage of others to get what you want
  • Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
  • Being envious of others and believing others envy you
  • Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner

Narcissism is SO rampant if you look deeply. I know the word can be thrown around lightly, but it's real.

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Here's the thing, if her heart was so good that type of behavior would not come out of her. We have one like that at work. Weirdo

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I find myself becoming more and more intolerant of this kind of behavior, and what everyone forgets is that this kind of person is talking about them when they are not there. While I would not start an argument with them I try and ignore what they are saying, give them no where to go. Its really a form of bullying, should not be tolerated.

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The crazy thing is that management on some level actually perceives this behavior as "assertive" and some have said this is the trait of a "strong personality":nono:

I personally do not subscribe to that particular way of thinking which may be why management positions at that hospital do not appeal to me!

I do my thing then go home!!

No drama please!!

I have to say that I have noticed "male" nurses do not behave this way!?

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I've never understood the "that's just her personality" statement. If someone is being downright rude and mean, perhaps someone needs to call them out on it. Do it casually, in front of everyone. Since she picks on everyone, perhaps something like "Is there anyone here you do like? You seem to have found a flaw with everyone here. Maybe we need to talk this out more. " If one person starts standing up to her, others might too. Don't ask with attitude or snark, ask with a genuine concern tone.

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I think she's creating a hostile work environment for her coworkers and HR is insane to allow it. Mean people can be mean all they want, on their own time. When you're at work you're also being paid to get along with coworkers and keep a polite tone in your voice. The old "that's just how they are" line from circa 1950 is a load of enabling, apologist BS.

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I left an excellent job 14 yrs because of a nurse like that who always intimidate me and the new nurses. Nobody would ever attempt do that to me today. Unlike the new nurse I was 14 yrs ago, I speak up and don't allow bully's to come my way. If I were the person I am today, I wouldn't have left that job. I respect all my coworkers and get the same from them. If anyone is gossiping about a coworker, I don't answer or comment. If anyone is complaining to me about a coworker, I advice to speak to the person directly or go to management.

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Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.
I've never understood the "that's just her personality" statement.
Me, neither. Personally, I do not have the most endearing personality in the world. However, I attempt to be a nice person while working. It is all about professionalism and the golden rule of treating others as you would want to be treated.
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Specializes in Adult MICU/SICU.

I think everyone should be held to the same professional standards of conduct while on the clock: engaging in back biting, malicious gossip, and creating drama with the intention to make someone else feel inadequate interferes with morale on the unit. So no, I don't believe anyone has the right to do these things while on the job.

Obviously "mean" may be construed and interpreted differently by everyone, but I believe behavior that intentionally makes another person feel unwelcome, stupid, or inferior shouldn't be tolerated in the work place. It's a form of bullying - schools supposedly have a zero tolerance for bullying, why should the work place be any different? It creates a hostile work environment, which in turn can impact the quality of patient care.

It's likely every one of us have experienced being on the receiving end of this type of unkindness at least once as children, and it definitely is a horrible, belittling feeling. I can't imagine having to endure this type of behavior every day while at work would allow me to do my job as effectively as I could if I didn't have to tolerate hostility from a coworker. I would hope management would feel the same way too.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I've never understood the "that's just her personality" statement. If someone is being downright rude and mean, perhaps someone needs to call them out on it. Do it casually, in front of everyone. Since she picks on everyone, perhaps something like "Is there anyone here you do like? You seem to have found a flaw with everyone here. Maybe we need to talk this out more. " If one person starts standing up to her, others might too. Don't ask with attitude or snark, ask with a genuine concern tone.

I doubt that calling someone out on their personality is going to cause any immediate change. Someone whose personality tends toward toxic either doesn't actually realize how very toxic they are, or doesn't really care. Their personality may change briefly, but it will change back just as soon as the stress of their life overwhelms any good intentions they might have. A truly unhappy nurse will be able to find fault with everyone there. And she'll be able to tell you exactly what that fault is.

You may find that a few (or even quite a few) brave and assertive individuals will stand up to the toxic nurse, but you will also find that there will always be "victims" who won't. Management probably keeps her around because she's an awesome nurse who can handle whatever is thrown at her and teach it as well. People may not like her, or like to be around her but the smart ones will learn from her.

Toxic people who aren't excellent at their jobs tend to not keep their jobs.

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