Should mean people be allowed to be mean at work?

CalArmy · Aug 17, 2016

I have always found the best way to handle people like that is:

1: don't give them ammunition meaning if they are talking trash don't comment. That will always come back to bite you.

2: ignore them!!! If they know they can't bait you then they will eventually give up.

sometimes you deal with situations the same as you did in elementary school. The principles still remain the same.

INN_777, BSN, RN · Aug 17, 2016

Here are three words to your direct management team that I'm almost 100% sure will get them to perk up and address the issue with your "mean" coworker: "hostile work environment."

Yes, this! These indeed are the magic words that HR is trained to jump to. And bullying (and that is exactly what OP is describing) creates exactly that.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Aug 17, 2016

I suspect the meanness is part of a bigger issue...

Like all occupational pathways, the nursing profession sometimes attracts people with deeply seated personal issues. Nurses who have power-trip issues need lots of validation and ego-stroking to feel emboldened and empowered. Hence, some nurses are mean to certain coworkers because the power is evidenced by his/her coworkers' varied reactions to the meanness.

Some nurses who crave power attain temporary thrills by being mean and aggressive toward their coworkers. For a myriad of bizarre reasons, their egos receive a momentary boost when they witness the manner in which their negative actions affect the floor's mood and workflow.

Worst of all, managers who allow the meanness to multiply unchecked are simply validating the mean nurse's unofficial power over the floor/unit. To keep a long story short, misery loves company...

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Aug 17, 2016

So, I work on a fabulous unit, with mostly very nice people who respect each other and work well together. But, there is one nurse who is just plain mean. She says nasty things and complains about whoever happens to be not around. Her nasty things range from complaining about their work habits, to personal attacks about people's hair or shoes being ugly. When I was orienting, I was told by my preceptor, "That's just her personality". I guess, my feeling is that it's ok for her to be her not-nice self on her own time, but at work, she should tone it down and act like a professional. What do you all think?

Most workplaces have written behavioral expectations and processes in place to address when an employee fails to meet them. The first place to start would be to identify these things, then go from there.

Been there,done that, ASN, RN · Aug 17, 2016

I suspect the meanness is part of a bigger issue...
Like all occupational pathways, the nursing profession sometimes attracts people with deeply seated personal issues. Nurses who have power-trip issues need lots of validation and ego-stroking to feel emboldened and empowered. Hence, some nurses are mean to certain coworkers because the power is evidenced by his/her coworkers' varied reactions to the meanness.
Some nurses who crave power attain temporary thrills by being mean and aggressive toward their coworkers. For a myriad of bizarre reasons, their egos receive a momentary boost when they witness the manner in which their negative actions affect the floor's mood and workflow.
Worst of all, managers who allow the meanness to multiply unchecked are simply validating the mean nurse's unofficial power over the floor/unit. To keep a long story short, misery loves company...

The "bigger issue" does not matter. Analyzing the the rationale for the behavior does not matter. That is enabling the behavior that interferes with the functioning of the unit.

That behavior needs to be STOPPED. Management needed to realize what is going on , step in and handle it. In the scenario that I presented, management was aware of the situation, and AFRAID of the crazy, mean, controlling nurse , that they put into a charge position.

When big boy corporate administration took over with their new rules of conduct.. crazy, mean, controlling nurse HAD to be dealt with by wimpy management.

annabanana2 · Aug 17, 2016

When I first started working at my current job a few years ago I worked with a nurse who was known to have difficulty controlling her anger with coworkers. She was even snippy and rude to clients at times. It was tolerated in the workplace because we're a bunch of Canadians who have trouble being confrontational. There were nurses who deliberately moved desks in the office to avoid her. I should note that she is a good nurse and a kind person, but at times her behaviour is difficult to tolerate. It seems like she would get angry or annoyed about something and then just explode into snarling and sarcasm. It had been addressed by management I think but not in a very clear or forceful way, and I think it was easy for her to dismiss it as some higher-up sticking their nose into where it doesn't belong.

Eventually there was some staff turnover and I and some new coworkers just started respectfully calling her on it. Just sort of pleasantly observing the impact of her words on us, in the moment when they were occurring. It actually didn't take long for her to realize that what she was doing was really not okay, and she's since taken the initiative to get counselling to work on it (she mentioned this to me when she approached me to apologize for a particularly difficult encounter we had had).

Sour Lemon · Aug 17, 2016

So, I work on a fabulous unit, with mostly very nice people who respect each other and work well together. But, there is one nurse who is just plain mean. She says nasty things and complains about whoever happens to be not around. Her nasty things range from complaining about their work habits, to personal attacks about people's hair or shoes being ugly. When I was orienting, I was told by my preceptor, "That's just her personality". I guess, my feeling is that it's ok for her to be her not-nice self on her own time, but at work, she should tone it down and act like a professional. What do you all think?

I don't think that's possible. I just think that the, "She's allowed to be disrespectful to co-workers, because that's just how she is" is not right. She has made one of our CNAs cry, and made other nurses feel intimidated. I hate the term "bully", but that's how I would describe someone like this. We don't necessarily have to be nice to our co-workers all the time, but we should at least be respectful. Maybe I'm wrong on that though... My fear is that that attitude will spread (we have a lot of newbies), and I really value our non-toxic work place.

She might be a huge jerk, but some people people are hysterical by nature and cry at the drop of a hat. Some people are also easily intimidated. "Mean" is simply too vague to take action on, IMO. "Disrespectful" is another word that's wide open to interpenetration.

You've obviously been talking about her quite a bit as opposed to her. Some would consider that to be disrespectful, mean, toxic, etc.

Complaints about this person should probably focus on concrete, rule-breaking behavior as opposed to how she makes you "feel" ...and consider making them through proper channels instead of gossiping with your co-workers. If you're new, you really don't know who your friends are yet- and you don't want to find out the hard way.

Erythropoiesis · Aug 17, 2016

If she really is that horrendous of a presence at work, my guess is that she accepts far less compensation than others are willing to work for. That's usually why they keep the nasty ones around in a lot of fields.

Let her dig her own grave. She sounds like she has no friends, and nobody in her corner. She likely has had complaints filed against her in the past, but I second what others are saying about using the magic words (hostile work environment). Ignore her when she brings that around you. There's going to be ugly people at every job...just have to learn not to feed the trolls.

JinnSchlajfertig · Aug 17, 2016

At my last job they took this stuff seriously. They would work with the person. Perhaps he/she was having stress at work or home and needed support or time off work. It was an involuntary inpatient psychiatric unit, which can be very stressful. There was high turnover. The management did not tolerate bullying or uncivil behavior. People who didn't shape up after interventions were fired.

Once I was very frustrated because a patient was discharged before I could go over his dischare instructions, including medications and his legal requirements to stay out in the community. The mental health specialist (non-medical worker), a nice guy in his early 20s was focused on his own tasks (getting the patient's belongings together, signing paperwork, etc.) and put him in a cab before a nurse signed off on his discharge. I was the nurse discharging him, but didn't get a chance to do my tasks. In my world, my clinical tasks trump his. I was frustrated that this happened and said "how can a patient be discharged from a hospital without his nurse knowing?" in an upset tone. I was new there and upset at the system, not at the mental health specialist.

But he heard me and had a hurt look on his face. I realized that I had inadvertantly been "mean" to him. I took a break for 5 minutes and came back. I told him something like "hey, I am really sorry about that. I am not upset with you at all. I know this is your first job in the medical field. I have just never seen a hospital work this way and a lot is at stake with these involuntary discharges. I really enjoy working with you and I think you are doing a great job." He looked relieved. I realized he was just a kid. I have been a nurse for 5 years, but have worked in mental health for 18, and was 22 when I started, like him. So I realized I owed him some kindness and mentorship, not snapping at him about my frustrations.

A week later, our staff support therapist/trainer (YES WE HAVE THAT) took me aside and thanked me for doing the right thing even though I was frustrated. He asked me how the discharge process could go better. I fessed up to screwing up and being upset. He listened and helped me problem-solve. Apparently word had got around to him about the exchange.

The young mental health specialist and I ended up having a great working relationship, watching each others' backs (in an often volatile setting) the rest of my time there.

I tell this story because THAT is the kind of unit I wish we all had. It is safer for patients and helps keep workers happy. I see no reason to tolerate an ongoing pattern of abusive, mean behavior.

NuGuyNurse2b · Aug 17, 2016

Misery loves company. It's not just a saying, people who are miserable truly make others around them miserable, too.

I don't care if it's a personality flaw or if someone's having a bad day - my philosophy is that I leave those things behind when I clock in, and I expect the same from my co-workers. I won't tolerate it, and I will call people out on it. I've plainly asked people to 'take it down a notch, thanks' - and I've gotten surprised jaw drops, snide remarks (usually under the breath, because I'm crass enough to point it out to you and I am bold enough to continue the finger pointing), and the audible "ugh" followed by an eye roll. But in all those cases, the offending party knew I wasn't there for their feces.

Maevish, ASN, RN · Aug 17, 2016

Is that a rhetorical questions? Of course they're not allowed to be mean at work! There ARE, however, nurses who get away with it because they're amazing nurses and other people say, "Oh, that's just so-and-so" and let them get away with it. There was a nurse like that at a hospital I worked at for about 6 years. People said that about her and she's still working there (and hasn't gotten better). I don't know how people are allowed to be like that, but of course it shouldn't happen and it's not right.

xo

jessimee · Aug 17, 2016

To the poster who said it sounds like I've been talking about her quite a bit--I actually haven't been talking about her quite a bit. I just try to avoid her and when she does approach me and tries to engage me, I politely acknowledge that she's frustrated and move on. Her attitude doesn't affect me, I am a firm believer that what another poster said is true, we are only responsible for our own feelings/responses. I became concerned the other day when a newer nurse approached me who WAS taking this nurse's comments personally, and is struggling to be happy on our unit. I felt bad that all I had to offer her was the "That's just how she is, don't take it personally" argument. It just doesn't seem fair. But as said in another post, at this point it's someone else's issue to to take to management, not mine. Unless I want to be proactive, which would need to be done carefully.