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Riots in Minneapolis

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Honest question for you Toomuch, what do you think the response should be in Minneapolis from the police? Should they stop the looting and rioting and let it happen?

toomuchbaloney

Has 43 years experience.

30 minutes ago, TomPaine said:

Honest question for you Toomuch, what do you think the response should be in Minneapolis from the police? Should they stop the looting and rioting and let it happen?

They should definitely stop arresting and harassing people for peacefully protesting or filming and reporting on the protests. Of course police are supposed to interact to uphold the law...unfortunately these goons aren't exactly famous for upholding the law themselves, are they? They do make Orwell seem like a current events writer, though.

We agree there. Peaceful protestors should be left alone. Looters and rioters should be arrested.

LovingPeds, MSN, APRN, NP

Specializes in Clinical Pediatrics; Maternal-Child Educator. Has 11 years experience.

When I was growing up in central Alabama I was blessed enough to get to take an African American history class my senior year in high school at the local college where several women in the class were actually present on 'Bloody Sunday' in 1965 and when MLK marched across the Pettus bridge. The class was very small (less than 10 students) and most of the students were middle aged or older. I was both the youngest and the only white person in the class. I say that because one thing I will never forget is that none of my friend's parents would let them take the class with me even though it was a valid elective.

It was such a shame because years later I think that class had a bigger impact on me than any other I have ever taken. I was told how when men and women were jailed for breaking Jim Crow law or protesting these awful conditions, they were fed food in the local jail with dead roaches in it. People had their life threatened for simply using the 'wrong' water fountain. Countless people were lynched in trees with their bodies left hanging for their families and friends. The last lynching by the way was just 39 years ago in Mobile, Alabama. One example of a dozen things done to demoralize and dehumanize. All you have to do is look at the pictures of state troopers throwing tear gas, hosing down with pressurizing water, and beating unarmed truly peaceful protesters for the simple fact they dared to protest at all to believe those things were both possible and true. The captured footage of Bloody Sunday is shocking. It sparked international outrage and is considered to be one of the major turning points in the Civil Rights movement.

I bring this up because one of the interesting things about this is the stark contrast between the protesters, the police, and the general public harassing them on side lines at that time. The protestors showed up to march in their "Sunday best". I was told by one of the women in my class it was because the leaders of the day, MLK included, were acutely aware of how the perception of people can change based on how you present yourself both in dress and behavior. So they marched in their best clothes, didn't cuss, didn't throw bottles at police, didn't burn buildings and changed the course of Alabama history.

These protesters who are burning down buildings and looting in Minneapolis aren't protesting the death of George Floyd. They aren't protesting unfair conditions. They're taking advantage of terrible situation and an unnecessary tragic death to do what they want and they are hurting 'their' community and 'their' cause in the process and they don't care. I have known people who have overcome adversity with dignity and grace despite pent up anger and hurt. It speaks louder than burning the construction of affordable housing and police departments. Children throw tantrums. Adults have seek to have conversations.

Omar Jimenez's arrest after appropriately identifying himself and attempting to comply with officers speaks volumes about the situation by itself. The video footage of George Floyd on the ground hand cuffed and still held down by three officers speaks even more so. The officer putting his knee into the neck of a begging man who essentially can barely move says everything you need to know about him. It tells you what you need to know about his fellow officers at the scene that they didn't speak up. It even tells you a little information about their commanding officers that these officers felt that this was okay. No burning, looting, or rioting needed.

Actions speak louder than words and they always tell the truth.

Edited by LovingPeds

I just saw a news clip where AIM (American Indian movement) was patrolling their neighborhood and found a bunch of high school boys from Eau Claire looting a store. Good grief. What have we become?

toomuchbaloney

Has 43 years experience.

2 hours ago, TomPaine said:

We agree there. Peaceful protestors should be left alone. Looters and rioters should be arrested.

The people arrested on Friday in the Twin Cities were all from outside of MN according to the respective mayors of the cities. There is every appearance that outside groups are interjecting THEIR desire for violence, chaos, and conflict between the police and the protesters into the mix. You can find the encouragement and talk in private FB groups.

herring_RN, ASN, BSN

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical. Has 49 years experience.

53 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

The people arrested on Friday in the Twin Cities were all from outside of MN according to the respective mayors of the cities. There is every appearance that outside groups are interjecting THEIR desire for violence, chaos, and conflict between the police and the protesters into the mix. You can find the encouragement and talk in private FB groups.

Officials: Outsiders fueling rioting, looting, violence in Twin Cities; Walz fully mobilizing National Guard

Gov. Tim Walz said officials estimate that about 80 percent of the rioters Friday night were from outside Minnesota while 20 percent were Minnesotans.

As officials make arrests, they are investigating who those individuals are and whether they are associated with any groups, said Minnesota Public Safety Commissioner John Harrington.

“We have seen things like white supremacist organizers posting on platforms about coming to Minnesota,” Harrington said. He added that officials are also looking into connections with organized crime...

... St. Paul Mayor Melvin Carter said his city had a relatively quiet evening. But many of the arrests made in St. Paul Friday night and into the early morning were of people from out of state.

“Those folks who are agitating and inciting are taking advantage of the pain, of the hurt, of the frustration, of the anger, of the very real and legitimate sadness that so many of our community members feel, to advocate for the destruction of our communities,”...

https://www.twincities.com/2020/05/30/mn-officials-outsiders-fueling-nights-of-rioting-looting-and-violence-in-twin-cities/

herring_RN, ASN, BSN

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical. Has 49 years experience.

On 5/29/2020 at 6:20 AM, Brian S. said:

The latest round of apparent mis-steps by police in Minneapolis – this time by the Minnesota State Highway Patrol – was the arrest of a CNN crew. As they broadcasted early this morning from outside the Minneapolis 3rd Police Precinct, officers arrested the reporter and crew. The reporter identified himself, was calm, and asked where to move. The reporter and crew were released but this certainly doesn't reflect well on the police handling the riots in Minneapolis. One last detail is that the reporter was a black man. All of this was broadcast live on national TV.

Policing in the US is not about enforcing law. It’s about enforcing white supremacy

On Friday the CNN journalist Omar Jimenez was arrested on live television as he covered protests of police brutality in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Jimenez identifies as African American and Hispanic, and when the cops confronted him, he did just what minority parents tell their kids to do. Jimenez cooperated; he was respectful, deferential even. He said “we can move back to where you like … We are getting out of your way … Wherever you want us, we will go.”

It didn’t matter; the police officers put handcuffs on him and led him away, and then came back to arrest his crew. Jimenez narrated his arrest as they led him away. His voice is steady. His eyes, though. Jimenez is masked so his eyes are the only clue to what he’s feeling. His eyes are perplexed and terrified. I get it. When a black or brown person goes into police custody, you never know what is going to happen. You just know that when you leave police custody, if you are lucky enough to leave, you will be diminished. That is the point.

Jeff Zucker, the CNN president, talked to Tim Walz, the governor of Minnesota, and the crew was quickly released. With an apology from the governor, not the cops. Cops rarely apologize, especially to black men.

But what’s most interesting is what happened to Josh Campbell, a white CNN journalist who was in the same area as Jimenez and not arrested. Campbell said his experience was the “opposite” of Jimenez’s. The cops asked him “politely to move here and there”. “A couple times I’ve moved closer than they would like. They asked politely to move back. They didn’t pull out the handcuffs.”...

... In the end, this is not about law enforcement. It’s about enforcing white supremacy. There’s no tinkering with that, what with white supremacy being the foundation on which the country was built. The consistent big question in the quest for racial justice has been how much white supremacy is central to the identity of the US. This is what Barack Obama and Ta-Nehisi Coates argued about. If we had something approaching equal justice, would we still even be the United States? ...

https://www.MSN.com/en-gb/news/uknews/policing-in-the-us-is-not-about-enforcing-law-it-e2-80-99s-about-enforcing-white-supremacy/ar-BB14OaXD

herring_RN, ASN, BSN

Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical. Has 49 years experience.

I don't believe I have ever met a racist nurse. I have worked with nurse friends who grew up knowing only White people. One young RN I oriented grew up in Chicago, but in school, church and the neighborhood ONLY knew Polish people, immigrants and their descendants. She was as considerate and kind to all of us and her patients as we can hope to be.

Quote

America must listen to its wounds. They will tell us where to look for hope: Reverend William Barber

Only if the screams and tears and protests shake the very conscience of this nation can we hope for a better society on the other side of this

No one wants to see their community burn. But the fires burning in Minneapolis, just like the fire burning in the spirits of so many marginalized Americans today, are a natural response to the trauma black communities have experienced, generation after generation. No one wants the fires – even activists on the ground have said this.

But they have also shared how their non-violent pleas and protests have gone unnoticed for years as the situation has gotten out of hand. Countless activists, grassroots leaders and preachers were screaming non-violently long before now: “Change, America! Change, Minneapolis!” Rather than listen, many of those in power saw even their non-violent protest as an unwelcome development.

Too many want to believe racism is merely caused by a few bad actors. We often turn racism into a spectacle, only considering the cruel legacy of racism when an egregious action escalates outrage to this level...

Black Americans have rarely been able to sustain such illusions. Deadly racism is always with us, and not only through police brutality.... ... Even before Covid, large numbers of black Americans died because of the racial disparities in healthcare, which are systemic and not unintentional...

... I have been reflecting on the eulogy Doctor King offered when another man – a white man who came to Selma, Alabama, to work for voting rights – was brutally murdered by racist violence in 1965. At the funeral for James Reed, Dr King said it is not enough to ask who killed the victim in a case like the murder of George Floyd. Weak and unacceptable charges have been brought against the officer whose knee choked George Floyd, staying on his neck for three minutes after he went unconscious, but no charges have been filed against the other officers who stood by and watched. Even still, dealing with who did the killing is not all that justice demands. Dr King said the question is not only who killed him, but also what killed him?

We can be determined to never accept the destruction of our bodies and dreams by any police, person or policy. We have learned that there is a force more powerful. When hands that once picked cotton have joined together with white hands and Native hands, brown hands and Asian hands, we have been able to fundamentally reconstruct this democracy. Slavery was abolished. Women did gain the right to vote. Labor did win a 40-hour work week and a minimum wage. The civil rights movement in the face of lynching and shooting did expand voting rights to African Americans.

If we take time to listen to this nation’s wounds, they tell us where to look for hope. The hope is in the mourning and the screams, which make us want to rush from this place. There is a sense in which right now we must refuse to be comforted too quickly. Only if these screams and tears and protests shake the very conscience of this nation –and until there is real political and judicial repentance – can we hope for a better society on the other side of this...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/30/america-must-listen-to-its-wounds-george-floyd-they-will-tell-us-where-to-look-for-hope

adventure_rn, BSN

Specializes in NICU, PICU.

I agree with @toomuchbaloney--the vast majority of people who are actually protesting want to do so peacefully, and there are a tiny handful of bad apples who are making the entire group look bad (I.e. opportunistic looters who may not even be associated with the protests, people who want to incite violence/chaos for the heck of it, and even reports of alt-right neo-nazi types who are trying to discredit the movement).

20 hours ago, TomPaine said:

We agree there. Peaceful protestors should be left alone. Looters and rioters should be arrested.

The problem is that in the chaos of the protests, peaceful protestors who make up the vast majority are being harmed as collateral damage. If a handful of really rowdy, violent people threaten the cops or get in their faces, then everybody gets pepper-sprayed. In the moment, there's no real way to separate them.

The timing is just so profoundly crappy. I really do feel for these business, who were already just barely scraping by in the face of covid, now having their property and merchandise completely destroyed.

It's also terrible timing from a public health perspective; there is zero social distancing going on. I'm especially concerned for the black communities in those cities, since they've already been disproportionately affected. Even if at-risk people choose to stay home, their younger, healthier friends and family who protest could infect them. It really highlights the multi-faceted disadvantages that minorities face; you're screwed if you protest, and screwed if you don't.

To be honest, I also worry about the cops at the protests getting covid, since they're involuntarily being exposed by unmasked people yelling in their faces. Even though Derek Chauvin's actions were unforgivable, other police officers don't deserve to get sick because of him. Just like I don't think that all protestors should be judged based on the actions of the handful of looters, I also don't think that all of the police officers should be judged based on the actions of a handful of bad cops (although there are parts of the system that need reform).

Honestly, I think that covid had already heightened our current political/racial/economic/class divides; Floyd's death lit the fuse that set off a pre-existing powder keg.

Edited by adventure_rn

On 5/29/2020 at 8:18 AM, TomPaine said:

Toomuchbaloney, you seem to be missing my point and conflating several issues. Everyone with a working brain is appalled by what happened to George Floyd and people want to see the cop arrested and charged. I believe that will happen very soon. That's how our system works. And it's going to work in this case.

Imagine if every time something happened we didn't like politically we burned down our neighborhood and looted from businesses. It would be anarchy. There is no excuse for the looting. The riot police were only brought in when the looting and destruction began. The armed protestors at the capitol is a separate issue. I don't recall seeing the armed capitol protestors looting, destroying cop cars or businesses. If you have some video or anything showing that please share.

What do you want to happen in Minneapolis? Should the police let looters continue to steal and burn down businesses? Are you really advocating for more chaos? Or are you just upset that peaceful protestors at a capitol in another state weren't met with riot police as well?

Minnesota is my home state and it is always touted as a great and welcoming place to live but only if you’re are a white Scandinavian. It probably has one of the highest levels of racial inequality in the US. And the Minneapolis police have a history of abuse and killing unarmed citizens. People are sick of this *** and no matter how many people are murdered by police it doesn’t change. Can you even imagine being too afraid to go for a walk in your own neighborhood because you might not come home? This is documented by multiple people in several cities. And as a sided note: AIM members were patrolling their neighborhood and came across looters in a store. They were high school boys (all white) from Eau Claire. So, yeah. Violence is always wrong but it is understandable.

@herring and @toomuch, most of the rioters are from MN. That was incorrect information given by the governor: https://www.kare11.com/article/news/investigations/kare-11-investigates-records-show-arrests-mostly-minnesotans-as-george-floyd-protests-riots-continue-minneapolis-st-paul/89-73f3e0e8-0664-41d5-8d3e-4467d04da7cb

There have been reports of left wing groups like antifa creating much of the chaos too. Peaceful protestors and journalists like CNN should not be arrested or pepper sprayed. If a person is destroying property, throwing things at cops or looting they should be arrested.