I have a vent about coworkers who have kids playing the "Kid Card," by claiming that they have to come in late sometimes, need more sick time, or that it isn't as bad to call out, when compared to workers who don't have kids. Now, I have a child myself, but I have never felt that it entitled me to special treatment at work.
Lately, some coworkers have been calling out, coming late, or leaving work early. They claim that since they have kids, it's "expected" that this should happen, and that the NH should be more understanding, and that they should not be written-up. Also, they argue that they should get preference for holidays off over workers without kids. (I know this is a big concern around Christmas.) I feel that all workers should abide by the same attendance rules, and that nurses and CNAs who have kids should not, on that basis alone, be "allowed" to come to work late, or have more sick time. What do you all think?
The USA in general is not supportive of working families. Not that I agree with someone being late, etc, b/c of their children, but we as a nation need better support.
I am lucky enough to have my mom as my babysitter, so no problem with sick kids, etc, and she does things a day care wouldn't. I could go on for hours about how our nations mothers are scared to start breastfeeding their babies b/c they have to return to work in 6 weeks, and have no pumping facilities in house. How many babies die (yes, die!) because of this every year in our country?
Or how many people with chronically sick kids can't find a flex schedule b/c our companies don't offer this. Etc, etc, etc. I could (and have, lol) gone on and on about this. No other country treats its working families this way.
And to say that the nurses dealing with these kinds of issues should "get out of nursing"? Might as well just hit the delete button on American health care right now. We would have very, very few nurses left.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
To me it seems like the real issue is the companies that do not hire enough staff to have the resources to deal with staff fluctuations.
We are all going to have sick kis, be sick ourselves, and/or have family tragedies or emergencies. It is not rrealistic to not have back up plans and resources for something that is a certainty to occur.
I had 3 children already when I started nursing school, and the realities of working 12-hour shifts in a hospital setting were no secret. I knew going in that daycare and school activities and kids getting sick were potential issues and from the beginning I made a promise to myself that I would look for creative and innovative solutions without having to play the "kid card", compromising on patient care, or placing an unfair burden on my colleagues by expecting them to pick up slack for me.
I'm fortunate to have a husband who is self employed and can schedule clients around taking kids to school and picking them up from school. But, as a balance to that, I have agreed to work part-time, 12 hour nights only (2-3 shifts/week) for the past 8 years. When the kids have been sick, I am at home with them during the day - even if it meant that I had to camp on the sofa after a night shift and only have catnaps so that I could keep an eye on the kids. We have been able to manage my nursing career without having any outside childcare from the time the children were full-time in school. I also opted in to the benefits and pension plan through work, so I have pretty much the same quality of life and income as a full-time RN, yet I am able to do it on 2-3 shifts/week vs 3-4 shifts/week.
My family's quality time every day is dinner time. Part of the kids' bedtime routine has been to make their own lunches, so that duty has been successfully delegated to people who have a vested interest in doing it well. I am usually home by the time they are ready to leave for school, so I can give them a hug and see them off for their day. If I've worked overnight, I will pop something in the slowcooker when I get home so that we have a nice dinner ready for us at 17:30.
With holidays, the kids all know that Mom has to work alternate Christmases and New Years, but being open to other possibilities and being proactive in finding solutions really pays off in the long-run. A couple of years ago, two of my colleagues and I offered to trial working 8-hour shifts over Christmas (24, 25 & 26 of December per our contract), and our manager was extremely supportive - and we all loved it. Because it was a trial, we gave the manager feedback on how things worked out so well and opened the way for other staff members who wanted to self-schedule this way over the holidays. I use vacation days for everyone's birthdays.
I realize that not everyone's circumstances are as flexible as mine, but at the same time, when I have made arrangements to honour both my family and my career obligations, I do get a bit resentful and it does feel like the lazy way out to me when a colleague expects to leave an hour early or come in an hour late to deal with daycare issues, or has never worked a Christmas in 10 years because her family values Christmas so much, or somehow manages to have every weekend off over the summer because her family values their weekends at the cottage, or goes on sick leave because the lighting at work suddenly gives her migraines (and yet manages to send a post card from Vegas while she's off sick - the lighting in Vegas is better, maybe?? ).
I understand the OP's desire to vent - I think many of us have been in situations where we've had to pick up the slack for people who are habitually late or negligent of their work obligations (with or without kids) - but I believe that Karma has a way of making things work out in the end. Don't think the behaviour goes unnoticed by management, and that the rumblings don't get picked up by team leaders and those in a position to hire. In a hiring situation, our manager will do what is best for her team and promote someone who is able to balance career and family without compromising patient care or demoralizing other colleagues with chronic lateness or family drama.
How many babies die (yes, die!) because of this every year in our country?
I'd like to see the evidence based information on this. I mean, do these mothers not know how to use formula or something? Are they not feeding their babies anything at all if they can't breast feed?
I don't know how much more flexible and supportive my unit can be - after all, we only require that people work 3 days a week (meaning, there are 4 days or over half the week that the employee gets to be at home) and everyone can self schedule, so they can pick the days that work best for them (and people with children get to sign up for schedules a day earlier than the childless) ... what else can a company to support the working mother besides simply pay her to stay at home with her kids?
At some point, a line has to be drawn and someone has to say, "okay we've tried to work with you, but really, we only ask that you work 3 days a week, so you're going to have to take responsibility for your managing your children on your own time or find another job." Childless people have to manage their lives and families - elderly parents, friends who are as close as family, etc. - on their own time, so why on earth shouldn't people with children manage their children on their own time as well?
Wow, just finished the entire thread. Read every post. Here's my take:
I've worked full time for 35 years, 20 as an RN. It is my opinion that "family friendly" policies are often created at the expense of the people left behind. I don't begrudge people on site day care, special schedules, days off when their kids are really sick. I just could never tolerate that being balanced on my back.
I worked at one hospital that spent a kazillion dollars creating 24/7 on-site day care for sick kids/emergency day care. No one used it. Lost a bundle. Why did no one use it? "Johnny wants to be home". Ok, then the hospital created an "in your own home" care plan and would send staff to your home to watch your child so that you could work. Another failure. They gave up.
I heard thousands of parents tell me that they worked 12 hour shifts for the flexibility and time at home it afforded them with their kids. But when their kids were sick "I can't be away for 12 hours!".
One of the greatest failures of nursing management /hospital admin is coverage of maternity leaves. I have decades under my belt of being told to suck it up and work harder to cover for maternity leaves by a hospital that wouldn't cover the absence. And not an extra dime for that.
I stopped doing favors for new moms because they'd leave along with their IOU.
I now work in community health where I cover for no one's sick kid leave, no ones "baby's first Christmas!", no one's Irish dance lessons, etc. No more bottom of the totem pole for me. I'm a happy curmudgeon!
Pregnant nurses. Right now that is a sore issue with me. In less than a year, I have hired 2 pregnant nurses without knowing they were pregnant at the time. That is a question that by law I am not allowed to ask. But, as soon as they get into the facility and finish orientation, then they tell everyone and start wearing clothing that makes it now noticeable that they are indeed pregnant.
After a few months, then I am dealing with them wanting to take off a full 3 months for maternity leave and it leaves the rest of the nurses frustrated and missing out on their time off. The most recent, now comes forward and states that she has a 10# weight restriction and she has only been in the building two weeks. Sorry, she was told when she was hired that the weight requirements for the position are 50#. If she can't meet that, it looks like I will have to let her go. This time it will come down to her not telling the truth when asked if she could perform the job.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i think that since i had nothing to do with getting them pregnant, i shouldn't have to suffer for the fact that they have kids. if they thought the job schedule and the sick time policies were too onerous for someone who has children, they ought not to have taken the job!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
i'm on parents side. bedside nursing sucks because of it's lack of flexability for working parents. how are you supposed to get day care on off shifts, weekends or doubles and especially for mandation? .
so you think that those of us who weren't lucky enough to reproduce should cover for those who were. i'm happy to do that on the odd special case, but not every danged day! i'm sorry, but that's just not fair. if you can't do the hours, don't take the job. if you do take the job, do the hours!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
post shortened for brevity.
i'm sympathetic to a point. it can't be easy having kids and being a nurse. but hospital and other nursing areas are not bankers hours, never have been bankers hours, and everyone knows this.
but taking advantage of others with a sense of entitlement is irritating. as is the above mentioined waiting until you're hired on the floor before making your demands and needs known.
taking advantage of others with a sense of entitlement is irritating. i'm much more willing to help out when someone is apologetic about needing the help than when they hit me with the "you don't have kids so you don't have a life and you should do this for me because i have kids." card. i've actually had someone come right out and say this to me. i should work christmas for her because she has kids and i don't have a life. i not only didn't work her christmas for her, but vowed never to work any holidays for her.
when someone asks you for a favor, apologizes for the imposition and volunteers to do a favor for you in return, that's different. but those reasonable folks aren't the ones who inspire this much ire!
I have a great co-worker who recently missed a lot of work due to his son's chronic heart condition. He was in and out of the hospital. He was only 11 and he died. Do I begrudge him one minute of the time he took off. No way! Puts things in perspective for me.
I like being a nurse because I like caring for people. That includes my coworkers.
Pregnant nurses. Right now that is a sore issue with me. In less than a year, I have hired 2 pregnant nurses without knowing they were pregnant at the time. That is a question that by law I am not allowed to ask. But, as soon as they get into the facility and finish orientation, then they tell everyone and start wearing clothing that makes it now noticeable that they are indeed pregnant.
After a few months, then I am dealing with them wanting to take off a full 3 months for maternity leave and it leaves the rest of the nurses frustrated and missing out on their time off. The most recent, now comes forward and states that she has a 10# weight restriction and she has only been in the building two weeks. Sorry, she was told when she was hired that the weight requirements for the position are 50#. If she can't meet that, it looks like I will have to let her go. This time it will come down to her not telling the truth when asked if she could perform the job.
If she has only been in the building two weeks, then yes, you can probably say ask if she cannot perform the job and suggest she apply for a different job in the facility if she wants to work in the facilty that meets her requirements (if she has gone through site orientation). Especially if she was put on the restriction before she was hired on. If she was recently put on (a few days ago) I don't know how this would have been within her control however.
I remember when I took a PRN position and I didn't even know I was pregnant when I accepted and I did my pre-employement physical - sometimes there is no way to know. I was so sick with hyperemesis and doing my orientation - that there was no way - I ended up resigning from the position because I hadn't worked the position in a # of weeks. It was all for the best in the end!
I'm sorry but I find this condescending as hell. YOU have no idea what I plan to do about feeding my future children. I have no intention of breast feeding - and if I happen to change my mind, then it will be my decision and therefore my responsibility to make it work, not my co-workers responsibility to cover for me during innumerable breaks.
That's not even my point - let the lactaters take as many breaks as they want, but not at the expense of everyone else. Everyone should be getting breaks, not just breast feeding mothers. Why should we have to separate our employees and say, "Oh, you're a mother, you get special treatment." ? Hardly seems fair to the non-breast feeders in my unit who don't even get to eat LUNCH because these women are taking so many pumping breaks.
In my critical care area, we cannot leave our bedside without another nurse there if we have an intubated patient. Since almost every single one of us almost always has an intubated patient, and since there is only one charge nurse, that means that generally, only 1 nurse can be gone at a time. And since we have 5 nurses who are currently breast feeding (and we generally utilize 8-9 nurses on a given shift) that means over half of them are needing to be relieved every 2-3 hours during the day to go pump. They are gone for 15-25 minutes at a time, at least 4 times a day. Plus, they ALL take 45 minutes to an hour for lunch. This affects the rest of the employees, who can't then leave our bedsides to go to the bathroom, get a drink of water, take a break ourselves or even eat lunch, because it's so much more important to provide for the working, breast feeding mother.
Pardon me if I have no sympathy.
And at our facility, the patient's breast milk is labeled, just like it is every where else. Our staff members - the ones considerate enough not to put their bodily fluids next to other people's food - take a blank label, put their name on it, the date and time and so on and so forth. So that eliminates that problem. As I said, it's only one particular individual who has no problem sticking her milk in our food fridge for all the rest of us to enjoy.
Don't lecture me about breast feeding and supporting the breast feeding mother. I was a pedi nurse. I was a NICU nurse. Now I'm a PICU nurse. I helped my own sister through breast feeding 2 babies. I know all the arguments about breast milk being best. I've never heard, though, that breast feeding mothers deserve special treatment and are more valuable employees than non breast feeders, so *my* point is why should so many concessions be made to them a the expense of everyone else?
It doesn't matter how many infants or babies you work with as a nurse, or how many of your sister's babies...your not a mom. I kind of figured that from you OP about breast feeding moms not getting breaks...
Until your a mom, you won't get it. People with out kids always think they know until they have kids...then your whole life and likely a lot of ideas will change.
The world's most perfect parent is the one with no kids!
Also, they argue that they should get preference for holidays off over workers without kids. (I know this is a big concern around Christmas.) I feel that all workers should abide by the same attendance rules, and that nurses and CNAs who have kids should not, on that basis alone, be "allowed" to come to work late, or have more sick time. What do you all think?
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crissrn27, RN
904 Posts
The USA in general is not supportive of working families. Not that I agree with someone being late, etc, b/c of their children, but we as a nation need better support.
I am lucky enough to have my mom as my babysitter, so no problem with sick kids, etc, and she does things a day care wouldn't. I could go on for hours about how our nations mothers are scared to start breastfeeding their babies b/c they have to return to work in 6 weeks, and have no pumping facilities in house. How many babies die (yes, die!) because of this every year in our country?
Or how many people with chronically sick kids can't find a flex schedule b/c our companies don't offer this. Etc, etc, etc. I could (and have, lol) gone on and on about this. No other country treats its working families this way.
And to say that the nurses dealing with these kinds of issues should "get out of nursing"? Might as well just hit the delete button on American health care right now. We would have very, very few nurses left.