I have a vent about coworkers who have kids playing the "Kid Card," by claiming that they have to come in late sometimes, need more sick time, or that it isn't as bad to call out, when compared to workers who don't have kids. Now, I have a child myself, but I have never felt that it entitled me to special treatment at work.
Lately, some coworkers have been calling out, coming late, or leaving work early. They claim that since they have kids, it's "expected" that this should happen, and that the NH should be more understanding, and that they should not be written-up. Also, they argue that they should get preference for holidays off over workers without kids. (I know this is a big concern around Christmas.) I feel that all workers should abide by the same attendance rules, and that nurses and CNAs who have kids should not, on that basis alone, be "allowed" to come to work late, or have more sick time. What do you all think?
It doesn't matter how many infants or babies you work with as a nurse, or how many of your sister's babies...your not a mom. I kind of figured that from you OP about breast feeding moms not getting breaks...
Until your a mom, you won't get it. People with out kids always think they know until they have kids...then your whole life and likely a lot of ideas will change
QUOTE]
Well, I'm a mom and I am right there with wishing the breastfeeding moms could figure out how to continue to breastfeed, (sometimes for 5 years) without impacting MY work load. If someone wants to breast feed, I'm okay with that, but when it means that others have to, or are expected to, pick up their slack, that's where I draw the line. Most don't make a fuss, but there are some who do, and do often.
It doesn't matter how many infants or babies you work with as a nurse, or how many of your sister's babies...your not a mom. I kind of figured that from you OP about breast feeding moms not getting breaks...
Until your a mom, you won't get it. People with out kids always think they know until they have kids...then your whole life and likely a lot of ideas will change.
The world's most perfect parent is the one with no kids!
Exactly. I have to say that when I run into some people - always very helpful - that tried to offer me advice re: breastfeeding, they were always the ones who had never ever breastfed a child or had a child! And yes, they were healthcare professionals!! Oh well! I won't even go into people who try to offer parenting advice to others who aren't parents! That is an issue in society all parents face! lol!
I agree, until people are parents, they never, ever get it. When you have your own child, things change. Then you get it. Everything changes.
No, "having kids" shouldn't be abused - that isn't what we're saying... but yes, sometimes allowances (like taking an extra freakin 5 minutes for a break to pump or an extra break to pump to give your baby the best food available if you are WILLING and able) should be given to parents.
It doesn't matter how many infants or babies you work with as a nurse, or how many of your sister's babies...your not a mom. I kind of figured that from you OP about breast feeding moms not getting breaks...
Until your a mom, you won't get it. People with out kids always think they know until they have kids...then your whole life and likely a lot of ideas will change
QUOTE]
Well, I'm a mom and I am right there with wishing the breastfeeding moms could figure out how to continue to breastfeed, (sometimes for 5 years) without impacting MY work load. If someone wants to breast feed, I'm okay with that, but when it means that others have to, or are expected to, pick up their slack, that's where I draw the line. Most don't make a fuss, but there are some who do, and do often.
Then don't expect them to work 12 hour shifts without adequate time to pump. Its like peeing, its gotta come out somehow. Have them do 6 hour shifts so they can pump before they come, pump at lunch, then go off shift and go home and pump. Oh, but then there would be people who would complain about that too.
We have a lot of nursing moms on our unit and have NEVER had a problem with them going to pump. Just last week I was pod partners with one of them ...... she'd go pump throughout the night and it was no problem at all. She had all her stuff done, I didn't have to pick up any of her slack ..... so what was the problem with her going away for a bit while I just kept an eye on her 2 babies? NOTHING!
We have a lot of nursing moms on our unit and have NEVER had a problem with them going to pump. Just last week I was pod partners with one of them ...... she'd go pump throughout the night and it was no problem at all. She had all her stuff done, I didn't have to pick up any of her slack ..... so what was the problem with her going away for a bit while I just kept an eye on her 2 babies? NOTHING!
Thats the way it should be... it should never be a problem. I know that every time I wanted to hand off to go and pump I always made sure all my patients were checked up on, charted up on, pumps were upped, ect. Nothing for my partner to do, never a thing undone! I had more problems with my partners saying "I'm too busy to cover yours right now... I don't have time" ect. I had to start rounds of reglan for poor milk supply because of it and brought notes... and that was after I got sick! That stopped that real quick when I brought the note and complained. Like I said, I find that smokers get MORE breaks than anyone... why are we blaming lactaters who get to lactate for only 12 months here (usually less), and it is for the good of a child?
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
exactly. i have to say that when i run into some people - always very helpful - that tried to offer me advice re: breastfeeding, they were always the ones who had never ever breastfed a child or had a child! and yes, they were healthcare professionals!! oh well! i won't even go into people who try to offer parenting advice to others who aren't parents! that is an issue in society all parents face! lol!
i agree, until people are parents, they never, ever get it. when you have your own child, things change. then you get it. everything changes.
no, "having kids" shouldn't be abused - that isn't what we're saying... but yes, sometimes allowances (like taking an extra freakin 5 minutes for a break to pump or an extra break to pump to give your baby the best food available if you are willing and able) should be given to parents.
i don't think any of us begrudges the necessity to help out the parents now and again, as long as it's seen as a favor to be appreciated and not just expected. and as long as the parents return the favor when our dog has died, our father has had a heart attack, our mother is being evaluated for the alzheimer's unit or our husband's injury means we have to rush off to meet him in the emergency room.
i've willingly traded shifts with the mother whose daughter is being deployed to iraq, the father whose son broke his arm as dad was leaving for work (i worked 6 hours for him that night!) or the women understudying the church soloist for the christmas pagent who was suddenly called upon to sing at the christmas service. those people were all appreciative and returned the favor when my dog died, when my dad was in icu and when my husband was seriously ill.
i refuse to do any more "favors" for folks who feel that they are entitled to special treatment because they've been successful in reproducing. and that's what this thread is about.
i don't think any of us begrudges the necessity to help out the parents now and again, as long as it's seen as a favor to be appreciated and not just expected. and as long as the parents return the favor when our dog has died, our father has had a heart attack, our mother is being evaluated for the alzheimer's unit or our husband's injury means we have to rush off to meet him in the emergency room.
i've willingly traded shifts with the mother whose daughter is being deployed to iraq, the father whose son broke his arm as dad was leaving for work (i worked 6 hours for him that night!) or the women understudying the church soloist for the christmas pagent who was suddenly called upon to sing at the christmas service. those people were all appreciative and returned the favor when my dog died, when my dad was in icu and when my husband was seriously ill.
i refuse to do any more "favors" for folks who feel that they are entitled to special treatment because they've been successful in reproducing. and that's what this thread is about.
ruby, that is the way things should be. sounds like you work with a great group of coworkers.
in the end, it's the golden rule, and that was what i was trying to get across... do unto others... as you would have them do unto you. sounds like you guys have worked that out. now if only the rest of the world could!! :0)
Sounds like me the solution to the ongoing debate about breast feeding mothers is to legislate longer mat leave. How long is the average mat leave in the States? It can't be that long if mothers have to pump to breast feed. Mat leave here in Ontario is a year. Perhaps what needs to be done is for all your working, breast feeding mothers is to contact your members of govenment for longer time off after having a baby.
And just for the record - I don't have children, never will and am also tired of people using children as an excuse for coming in late!
Sounds like me the solution to the ongoing debate about breast feeding mothers is to legislate longer mat leave. How long is the average mat leave in the States? It can't be that long if mothers have to pump to breast feed. Mat leave here in Ontario is a year. Perhaps what needs to be done is for all your working, breast feeding mothers is to contact your members of govenment for longer time off after having a baby.
And just for the record - I don't have children, never will and am also tired of people using children as an excuse for coming in late!
6 weeks if you are lucky around here it seems. We had some of one girls come in at 4 weeks because of PTO allowances. i came in right at 6 weeks because i had already been off for preterm labor. I guess it is all your choice in the end. Most people don't take the whole 12 which is offered to most people... under FMLA. (family medical leave act)
With FMLA, if you have been working for the facility for a year you are allowed 12 weeks off here in the USA if you are working for a large company. otherwise, you are allowed nothing (small company). If you have not been there long enough, they do not have to cover your leave. there are more specifics but i think that is the gist of it.
It doesn't matter how many infants or babies you work with as a nurse, or how many of your sister's babies...your not a mom. I kind of figured that from you OP about breast feeding moms not getting breaks...
Until your a mom, you won't get it. People with out kids always think they know until they have kids...then your whole life and likely a lot of ideas will change.
The world's most perfect parent is the one with no kids!
Oh please ... could you be any more patronizing? I never claimed to have any first hand knowledge about parenting or what it's like to want to breast feed. What I said was don't lecture me about the benefits of breast feeding because I"m sure I'm as well versed in that as you are. I never made any claims about "knowing" anything ... that's your presumption. (But I do know myself, and I do know that my preference, as of now, is not to breast feed my future children. Should I change my mind, as I said, I'll have to find a way to support that decision without foisting it off onto my co-workers.)
And - if you'll read my posts again - I have no problem with the lactaters taking their breaks. What bothers me is when it infringes and inhibits the rest of the staff, who - through no fault of their own (I mean, some of them are men, after all) can't manage to make themselves lactate, and thus, don't need to pump.
When these breast feeding women manage to take 175 minutes of break time per lactater per shift and the non breast feeders don't even get to eat lunch, then yes, I have a problem with that.
As for letting them work 6 hours shifts, again unless that option was open to anyone who needed the flexibility, it seems unfair, but as long as their working less hours in a day doesn't dump extra work on me, then great. Only if they are putting in less time and effort - in short, doing less work - then they shouldn't be expecting and feeling entitled to the same merit raises and such that I and my non-parent, non-breast feeding co-workers get.
I believe that what we are seeing is the clash between people who have a strong personal work ethic and other people who have an indulged/"spoiled"/entitled the-world-owes-me-a-living attitude.
I also believe that if it were possible to instantaneously beam oneself to work, without having to deal with traffic snarls or parking or bad weather, these very same people would still be chronically late for work, expect to take longer breaks or go home half an hour before change of shift, and would habitually expect others to take up their slack.
The attitude of entitlement breeds the kind of behaviour that drives the rest of us crazy, who understand the concept of personal responsibility and accountability and don't want to impose on our colleagues' kindness more than absolutely necessary.
The only way to modify that behaviour is to change the attitude. The only way to modify the attitude is to consequence the behaviour that needs to change. To do anything else enables the behaviour. This is Behaviour Modificiation 101. Or Dr Phil.
So, how do we consequence the behaviour that is driving us mental? What options do we have, as professionals, in dealing with this kind of behaviour?
Obviously, giving the person a dressing-down is counterproductive and fosters acrimony in the workplace. As does (justifiable) grousing behind their backs.
Do you belong to a Union? Then your Union reps can be consulted to see if there are options available for self-scheduling. Maybe there is a group of nurses who want to trial self-scheduling and are willing to work with the childcare constrained people. The Union can also be a valuable resource in using your contract to write up a colleague who is not performing according to the terms of the contract. There should be a way for you to lodge your valid grievance confidentially.
Get to know the contract - you can bet your bottom dollar that your colleague is either extremely well informed of the contract terms and is exploiting every loophole known to mankind or they are assuming that everyone else is uninformed enough regarding the contract terms so that they can spout something in their favour and make it sound legitimate.
If you know the contract, you can find where there are breaches in contract, and when enough written complaints are on file regarding your colleague, management will have no alternative but to do something about their breach of contract.
The key is to put legitimate complaints in writing. Your institutions have incident reporting protocols for a reason. If your colleague's lateness / leaving early (ie, patient abandonment) results in a negative outcome to a patient (even one that is not assigned to her), that needs to be factored into the incident report and documented.
I know of one manager who docks your pay for being habitually late. When someone is obligated to work 1950 hours per year as a full time RN, having those 10-15 minutes late per shift docked not only impacts their pay, but it also documents their failure to meet their contract obligations, and provides evidence for termination or requiring the worker to make up the time owed.
Complaints to my particular manager, her manager, and finally our HR department about specific individuals and the overall atmosphere towards people with children vs. people without children earned me some shocked looks and remarks like I've heard here, "Well, some day YOU"LL have children and you'll be glad we cut people slack." And "I know it's frustrating and unacceptable, but she's got 2 kids. Can't you be understanding?"
Also, they argue that they should get preference for holidays off over workers without kids. (I know this is a big concern around Christmas.) I feel that all workers should abide by the same attendance rules, and that nurses and CNAs who have kids should not, on that basis alone, be "allowed" to come to work late, or have more sick time. What do you all think?
and able) should be given to parents.
tntrn, ASN, RN
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