"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

rn/writer, RN · Sep 15, 2007

lindarn: Nursing has become the "welfare of the health care professions". The plave to go, when you don't want to go to school for a long time, and can get a decent paying job with only two years invested. This lack of investment shows in nurses who would rather walk away from bad work invironments, than stay and fight to make it better. This revolving door environment does nothing but weaken us. No one stays long enough to bring about the needed change, and the destructive cycle continues.

This is a most unfortunate phrase and philosophy--a perfect example of condescencion, contempt, and sloppy logic.

It's quite a leap to assume that ADN and diploma nurses lack investment in their careers and work environments. Are you certain that ADNs and diploma nurses are the only RNs walking through that revolving door? If they do so at a higher percentage, perhaps that is because ADNs and diploma nurses combine to account for just under 70% of all RNs. So a 70% share of those who leave bad work environments would not constitute an over-representation.

You can (and should) campaign for all that the BSN has to offer without trashing your sister and brother RNs (ADNs and diploma nurses are exactly that) and consigning them to the "welfare" division of health care. Talk about opportunities having a BSN offers to a nurse in her own practice and create a vision that will give others food for thought. This would be such a refreshing change from the diminishing tactics that are used more often.

You lose a big chunk of your target audience when you focus mainly on the "professionalism" argument. To blame ADNs and Diploma RNS for negative treatment in the workplace and disrespect from other professions is to buy into skewed thinking.

Negative treatment has a great deal to do with the fact that modern nursing evolved from a career that started out predominantly female. This is more a sad commentary on the way women have historically been treated in the workplace, period, regardless of education level.

As for the crud from other professions, there will always be some level of squabbling among different disciplines. An all-BSN or higher nursing population will not stop that. Showing some solidarity among the ranks might make a difference. The sad thing is that we could behave that way now and reduce some of the mudslinging. Instead, the negativity-based BSN folks assist other professionals in name-calling and attacking. In truth, I have heard more crushing commentary from rabid BSN-or-higher folks than from any other group. Maybe we should stop talking about nurses eating their young and talk about some BSN nurses biting their colleagues--whether they would call them colleagues or not.

It's a shame that some BSN proponents don't understand that insulting ADN and diploma RNs and treating them like embarrassments and scapegoats for everything wrong with nursing is neither professional in demeanor nor effective in persuasion.

This discussion shouldn't be a teeter-totter where pushing ADN and diploma RNs to the ground is fallaciously imagined to elevate BSN RNs. That kind of mindset elevates no one.

leslymill · Sep 15, 2007

IF hospitals placed in reasonable ratio/acuity guidelines, we wouldn't need travel agencies, we wouldn't have a nurse shortage we wouldn't have a workforce needing unions. Then BSNs would get all the jobs and the other Nursing Programs would fall by the way side. Will they do that without a show of hands. Even if the community and doctors say it would save countless lives ? NO. This is their attitude when you tell them that you are too busy to give the care you entered nursing to give... "WELL GOOD". They are glad I am overworked and unhappy. Don't ask me why . They love it when I don't get a lunch break.

rn/writer, RN · Sep 15, 2007

Here are some thoughts about other reasons why nursing might not be as valued as it should be:

1. Many of us get our hands dirty. Sure, surgeons mess with blood and guts (but have you ever noticed they hide their identities behind masks and wear gloves so they don't leave fingerprints).

2. We work longer hours than almost any other group except hungry Wall Streeters and junior law partners. And residents. The difference is that for them, it's temporary.

3. We don't "dress for success." Some nurses just love their Scooby-Do scrubs (I think most of us appreciate the comfort), but they don't have quite the same cachet as a power suit and tasteful heels (or wingtips).

4. Some of us work nights. Intentionally. Teachers don't hold class at three AM. Attorneys don't have trials that start at 2300.

5. Which reminds me, we use military time. Accountants and social workers rarely do.

6. We carry workbags. Most of them loaded with all kinds of stuff, from our lunches to med reference books to supplies taken from our pockets to cheat sheets to personal hygiene products (for those mandatory overtime hours).

7. We have mandatory overtime hours.

8. Most of us answer to a timeclock. Can you imagine a dentist having to punch in?

9. We're paid by the hour. Sometimes other professions wish they were. Salaried folks can really get the short end of the stick in this area. Especially with time and a half or double time.

10. Many of us work part time. This one actually evokes jealousy in some other professionals. Nursing is one of the few jobs where you can scale up or scale down according to life's demands. You can even drop out for a time and come back to find fairly ready employment. Try that if you're a doctor or an executive. Tired of your unit or specialty? There are dozens of others to choose from. This kind of flexibility is the envy of many. They would jump at the chance if such an option were available to them.

Not a one of these items is education-level specific. So it just might be that there are a few other items to take into consideration when discussing how other professions view RNs. Management and academic RNs might "rise above" the items I've listed, but the list pretty much applies to the rest of us, regardless of degree or diploma status.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 15, 2007

That poor bandwagon has busted shocks, worn tires that have long been due for a rotation, new roof, new seats, and alignment. The bandwagons on these subjects need an extreme makeover LOL.

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 15, 2007

Dear Lord Let us put an end to this thread. Some people will not give credit to others if the other person has less education or a lower degree - as I noted for one of my psych papers the aggressers tend to be males.
In this state an Associate of Science in Nursing is 65 hours of college.
A Batcholors of Science in Nursing requires 105 more hours of NON NURSING COURSES. If The MSN has to do more clinical work and write a thesis.
One day the infamous "they" are going to reguire BSN's just like Banks were going to phase our paper money by the year 2000. If you are happy with your BSN be happy and leave every one else alone. In Alabama A BSN and 1$ will get you a cup of coffee. (By the way ASN and BSN are hired at the same pay with diff's for ACLS, PALs, and working 2nd or 3rd shift.
Can we please drop it and by the way Jerico keep your quotes correct I said the truth of the mattter is a 3 edged sword, your side, my side and then the truth.
Don't ever tell a ASN/ADN that they have not gone thru time, the effort and the money to earn a higher education.
If you want to keep to debate send me a message direct. 7 quarters of 14 to 16 hours - don't tell me i did not work for my degree.

Sorry, but we are not going to drop it or end this thread, so my advice would be for you stay away from this forum if you so desire to see this discussion dropped. :)

However, your opinions are needed and welcome (as are all of ours).

To address your last paragraph, it does bring to light that ADN programs have gotten longer and harder over the years, without awarding a BSN, which is a shame and a rip off to those of us who work those three for four years to get the ADN.

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 15, 2007

Tweety, I have to confess I was pretty reactive to a post that just took me to the moon. I apologize, it's really out of character for me , I have to be pretty angry to spout out like I did. Sorry to all if I offended anyone.

caliotter3 · Sep 15, 2007

As this thread lengthens, it gets better and better as a relief for my insomnia!

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 16, 2007

Tweety, I have to confess I was pretty reactive to a post that just took me to the moon. I apologize, it's really out of character for me , I have to be pretty angry to spout out like I did. Sorry to all if I offended anyone.

I think I know the post you're talking about. Apology accepted, but if there were TOS violations I would have called you on it, so you made it through. LOL

We need to remember no matter how offensive and belittling we think a poster is to our degree, we must not committ to Terms of Service violation in return. We must not attack individual posters, or cross-talk with someone else about them. I will defend everyone's right to express their opinion here.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 16, 2007

As this thread lengthens, it gets better and better as a relief for my insomnia!

Seriously, if you're that bored, why read it and why post something that really doesn't contribute a thing? :)

It will run it's course in due time, until someone else comes along and revives it. :)

sharona97, BSN, RN · Sep 16, 2007

I think I know the post you're talking about. Apology accepted, but if there were TOS violations I would have called you on it, so you made it through. LOL
We need to remember no matter how offensive and belittling we think a poster is to our degree, we must not committ to Terms of Service violation in return. We must not attack individual posters, or cross-talk with someone else about them. I will defend everyone's right to express their opinion here.

:lol2:Thanks, I feel better now. I hate being that angry about anything, recognizing it is where it 's at, I guess.............

allnurses Guide · Sep 16, 2007

I haven't read this whole thread . . .. I start my Stats class in October and BSN program in Jan.

I want to get my BSN. Period. Not for more money. Just because.

(Actually it is because my ds got his Bachelor's degree and so did Tweety and they have spurred me on to further my education).

steph

amzyRN · Sep 16, 2007

The more and more I think about whether a degree per se means that one is more qualified/skilled/intelligent etc...the more I think that it is possible to educate outside of the institution. People can and do audit classes for their own benefit w/o receiving formal credit for it. I think that maybe knowledge acquired outside of institutions of higher learning should count for something and that people shouldn't assume that just b/c one has a particular degree that they are necessarily "smarter" than anyone else or necessarily deserving of respect. So, if ADNs and Diploma nurses have acquired as much education as BSNs then they should be respected for that. If nursing allows that kind of leeway then maybe there is some logic to that.

J