"Don't waste your time getting your BSN..."

leslie :-D · Sep 16, 2007

being a member of this bb since 2000, i have read many of the bsn/adn threads.

the responses are predictably the same.

the divisiveness sets us even farther apart, creating undue resentment.

(i can see the bsn's vigorously nodding their heads.) :chuckle

for a long time, i truly thought that a minimum, standardized entry (bsn) would assist in making us more cohesive.

the more i thought about it, the less convinced i was.

i honestly do not think having equivalent degrees, would absolve the existence of the perpetual, lateral violence we experience.

(here come the flames)...not as long as we work in a female-dominated profession.

there's another thread about a poster being concerned w/her classmates hating her.

in that thread, a link was provided about the "heartless b*tch", and how females should conduct themselves accordingly.

to me, there was nothing "b*tchy" about the female in question.

she was confident, assertive and maintained perspective.

yet in our u.s. culture, any woman who doesn't respond emotionally or vindictively, is labeled a "b*tch".

keeping this in mind, we nurses work under incredibly stressful conditions.

adding that administration treats us like a bunch of mindless puppets;

an unsolicited image of being the angelic, merciful caregivers;

or, the unsolicited image of the slutty nurse....is it no wonder our frustration runs rampant?

there is a boatload of misperceptions about us.

on a small scale, nsg can be gratifying.

in the larger scheme of events, nsg is undoubtedly the most misunderstood and disrespected profession around.

the number of nurses leaving our profession, is mind-boggling.

given all these aforementioned dynamics, does one really think that acquiring a bsn will magically resolve these issues?

absolutely not.

you cannot command respect because of a title or degree.

we need to clarify what we want.

do we want recognition or respect?

granted, if we all had bsn's, then we would likely get the recognition.

would the lateral violence remain?

yes it would.

because of working in a horrifically stressful, female-dominated profession:

where we have never been 'taught' how to survive, nevermind, advance.

until we can unite in the sense of true sisterhood, the back-stabbing cattiness and pettiness will remain.

we need to buck up and pull together....period.

that means embracing our new grads.

that means teamwork, whether you're an rn, lpn or aide.

that means respect, whether you're a bsn, adn, inexperienced, black, white, handicapped or any other segment that has been targeted.

that means we don't behave like a bunch of high school girls, whose antics only serve to demean our entire profession.

it means we work together, always to benefit our pt population.

no more martyrdom, for we are not doormats.

we think more of ourselves than that.

no more acts of passive-aggressive:

for we are able to say what we mean, and mean what we say.

no more emotional responses to the pervasive abuses:

for we know our worth, and we are worthy.

no more "eating our young", or "eating ea other":

for we are soooo above that.

and we are united in vision and spirit.

it really is as simplistic as respecting yourself first and foremost.

and that doesn't evolve from obtaining a degree.

once ea and every one of you, takes that journey to self-actualize, then embracing your brothers and sisters will naturally ensue.

and respect will be ours...

and cohesion will follow.

for those who pursue higher education, then do it for personal reasons or specific, professional aspirations.

i certainly applaud anyone who seeks to better themself:

whether it is through formal academia or self-taught discovery.

but imho, a standardized bsn is not the answer.

trust me, with only changing this requirement, the major issues will still remain.

perhaps we can learn a thing or two, from our brother nurses.

it does not take a college degree, to exercise respect in the broadest sense of the word.

more specifically, respect, maturity, humility, intelligence and sensitivity, does a good nurse make.

peacefully,

leslie

Ms.Hobbes · Sep 16, 2007

I am actually in an RN-BSN and trust me if I were to do it over again I would of just shot for the BSN in the first place, but life situation did not allow it. I feel though my experience as a nurse has only enriched my new learning experience. Anyway back to the point I was going to make, currently I am in a Proffesional nursing class and studying nursing as a profession. It makes sense to want a common entry point for all nurses to start at, our BSN, in order to be considered a proffesional. There will always be a varying degree of educations with certifications, MSN's PHD's. We all have great things to contribute and learn from each other. :idea: All other professions have a common entry point, are a unified body and with that power can demand more pay and change. I am not saying that we do not act as professionals, but the population only sees us as emerging professionals.

Dragonnurse1, ASN, RN · Sep 17, 2007

I am in Deep South here the BSN program does not allow the students to do any hands on ( insurance) so when they graduate they have never ever started an IV.

I would hate to think of the number i started (ever one across the instep of the burn victims foot so she could be tubed). Our er was just one big mess. If we had patients that we had to hold for rooms they could handle that but the controlled chaos was too much. The is no brag but we did have one of the best er's in town and we stabalized patients for airlift. When working on this type of critical patient we did not have to really talk everyone alreacy knew their jobs so the only yelling was to call vitals or for meds. Trauma patient every thing is accessed at once. Not fair to the BSN's from AUM.

allnurses Guide · Sep 17, 2007

I am actually in an RN-BSN and trust me if I were to do it over again I would of just shot for the BSN in the first place, but life situation did not allow it. I feel though my experience as a nurse has only enriched my new learning experience. Anyway back to the point I was going to make, currently I am in a Proffesional nursing class and studying nursing as a profession. It makes sense to want a common entry point for all nurses to start at, our BSN, in order to be considered a proffesional. There will always be a varying degree of educations with certifications, MSN's PHD's. We all have great things to contribute and learn from each other. All other professions have a common entry point, are a unified body and with that power can demand more pay and change. I am not saying that we do not act as professionals, but the population only sees us as emerging professionals.

I'm about to do the same thing . . . .thanks for the information.

steph

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 17, 2007

please explain to all the lvn's and adn's here on this forum your basis for claiming that our mere existence has "really hurt the nursing profession". with all due respect, do you even have a clue what a lvn does?

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 17, 2007

Thanks for your post. I actually never said I was smarter than an MD or run circles around other nurses. Please see my reply on page 36.

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 17, 2007

This is a most unfortunate phrase and philosophy--a perfect example of condescencion, contempt, and sloppy logic.
It's quite a leap to assume that ADN and diploma nurses lack investment in their careers and work environments. Are you certain that ADNs and diploma nurses are the only RNs walking through that revolving door? If they do so at a higher percentage, perhaps that is because ADNs and diploma nurses combine to account for just under 70% of all RNs. So a 70% share of those who leave bad work environments would not constitute an over-representation.
You can (and should) campaign for all that the BSN has to offer without trashing your sister and brother RNs (ADNs and diploma nurses are exactly that) and consigning them to the "welfare" division of health care. Talk about opportunities having a BSN offers to a nurse in her own practice and create a vision that will give others food for thought. This would be such a refreshing change from the diminishing tactics that are used more often.
You lose a big chunk of your target audience when you focus mainly on the "professionalism" argument. To blame ADNs and Diploma RNS for negative treatment in the workplace and disrespect from other professions is to buy into skewed thinking.
Negative treatment has a great deal to do with the fact that modern nursing evolved from a career that started out predominantly female. This is more a sad commentary on the way women have historically been treated in the workplace, period, regardless of education level.
As for the crud from other professions, there will always be some level of squabbling among different disciplines. An all-BSN or higher nursing population will not stop that. Showing some solidarity among the ranks might make a difference. The sad thing is that we could behave that way now and reduce some of the mudslinging. Instead, the negativity-based BSN folks assist other professionals in name-calling and attacking. In truth, I have heard more crushing commentary from rabid BSN-or-higher folks than from any other group. Maybe we should stop talking about nurses eating their young and talk about some BSN nurses biting their colleagues--whether they would call them colleagues or not.
It's a shame that some BSN proponents don't understand that insulting ADN and diploma RNs and treating them like embarrassments and scapegoats for everything wrong with nursing is neither professional in demeanor nor effective in persuasion.
This discussion shouldn't be a teeter-totter where pushing ADN and diploma RNs to the ground is fallaciously imagined to elevate BSN RNs. That kind of mindset elevates no one.

I truly feel that some in this forum are jumping to conclusions in response to some of our posts. BSN nurses are not insulting, or blaming ADN's for all the problems in the nursing profession. I do agree with you that many of the problems in the nursing profession stem from it being a predominately female profession. However, you say we need to stop "squabbling" among ourselves. If we all had the same entry level education, the "squabbling" would end. I am not saying that making the BSN entry level will solve all the issues in the nursing profession, but it is a step in the right direction.

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 17, 2007

No problem:up:

rn/writer, RN · Sep 17, 2007

I truly feel that some in this forum are jumping to conclusions in response to some of our posts. BSN nurses are not insulting, or blaming ADN's for all the problems in the nursing profession. I do agree with you that many of the problems in the nursing profession stem from it being a predominately female profession. However, you say we need to stop "squabbling" among ourselves. If we all had the same entry level education, the "squabbling" would end. I am not saying that making the BSN entry level will solve all the issues in the nursing profession, but it is a step in the right direction.

After reading the post from which I quote below (where I see plenty of blaming and insulting), there was no need to jump to any conclusions:

Nursing has become the "welfare of the health care professions". The place to go, when you don't want to go to school for a long time, and can get a decent paying job with only two years invested. This lack of investment shows in nurses who would rather walk away from bad work invironments, than stay and fight to make it better. This revolving door environment does nothing but weaken us. No one stays long enough to bring about the needed change, and the destructive cycle continues.

It's abundantly clear (even moreso if you read her entire post) that this poster is holding non-BSN nurses accountable for much of what is wrong with nursing.

you say we need to stop "squabbling" among ourselves. If we all had the same entry level education, the "squabbling" would end. I am not saying that making the BSN entry level will solve all the issues in the nursing profession, but it is a step in the right direction.

IMO, this is naive. If BSN were entry level for all nurses, then the squabbling would change to which BSN was better. The four-year BSNs would look down their noses at the accelerated BSNs for not having paid their full dues. And the accelerated BSNs would probably snit right back that they were superior because they had an additional degree. And the MSNs would continue the fight with direct entry vs. traditional route.

BSNs who want to see their ranks swell ought to be focusing on the good things that come with the degree. Share what you have learned and gained and how it's benefitting your practice. Paint a picture of the possitibilities to be had for making the effort. Put the concept out there in terms of the good things that have come your way. This is a lot more likely to generate interest in pursuing a BSN that telling ADNs and diploma nurses how inadequate they are and how they are ruining nursing for those with higher degrees.

I'm not directing this to your posts directly, so please don't take offense. There have just been too many tirades about ADNs and diploma nurses bringing down the profession, as if they are the "slow" siblings who have to be kept out of sight when the other professionals come over for dinner. This is wrong on it's face, but it's also wrong because it telegraphs the message to people outside the profession that there is a ready-made wedge driven into our ranks just waiting for them to exploit. They don't have to disrespect us nurses. We're already doing a fine job of it ourselves.

I'm all for encouraging further education. Earning a BSN degree is a worthy goal and should be held in high esteem. It should not, however, grant permission to disrespect other RNs.

HudsonValleyRN, BSN · Sep 17, 2007

scooterRN52 · Sep 17, 2007

being a member of this bb since 2000, i have read many of the bsn/adn threads.
the responses are predictably the same.
the divisiveness sets us even farther apart, creating undue resentment.
(i can see the bsn's vigorously nodding their heads.) :chuckle
for a long time, i truly thought that a minimum, standardized entry (bsn) would assist in making us more cohesive.
the more i thought about it, the less convinced i was.
i honestly do not think having equivalent degrees, would absolve the existence of the perpetual, lateral violence we experience.
(here come the flames)...not as long as we work in a female-dominated profession.
there's another thread about a poster being concerned w/her classmates hating her.
in that thread, a link was provided about the "heartless b*tch", and how females should conduct themselves accordingly.
to me, there was nothing "b*tchy" about the female in question.
she was confident, assertive and maintained perspective.
yet in our u.s. culture, any woman who doesn't respond emotionally or vindictively, is labeled a "b*tch".
keeping this in mind, we nurses work under incredibly stressful conditions.
adding that administration treats us like a bunch of mindless puppets;
an unsolicited image of being the angelic, merciful caregivers;
or, the unsolicited image of the slutty nurse....is it no wonder our frustration runs rampant?
there is a boatload of misperceptions about us.
on a small scale, nsg can be gratifying.
in the larger scheme of events, nsg is undoubtedly the most misunderstood and disrespected profession around.
the number of nurses leaving our profession, is mind-boggling.
given all these aforementioned dynamics, does one really think that acquiring a bsn will magically resolve these issues?
absolutely not.
you cannot command respect because of a title or degree.
we need to clarify what we want.
do we want recognition or respect?
granted, if we all had bsn's, then we would likely get the recognition.
would the lateral violence remain?
yes it would.
because of working in a horrifically stressful, female-dominated profession:
where we have never been 'taught' how to survive, nevermind, advance.
until we can unite in the sense of true sisterhood, the back-stabbing cattiness and pettiness will remain.
we need to buck up and pull together....period.
that means embracing our new grads.
that means teamwork, whether you're an rn, lpn or aide.
that means respect, whether you're a bsn, adn, inexperienced, black, white, handicapped or any other segment that has been targeted.
that means we don't behave like a bunch of high school girls, whose antics only serve to demean our entire profession.
it means we work together, always to benefit our pt population.
no more martyrdom, for we are not doormats.
we think more of ourselves than that.
no more acts of passive-aggressive:
for we are able to say what we mean, and mean what we say.
no more emotional responses to the pervasive abuses:
for we know our worth, and we are worthy.
no more "eating our young", or "eating ea other":
for we are soooo above that.
and we are united in vision and spirit.
it really is as simplistic as respecting yourself first and foremost.
and that doesn't evolve from obtaining a degree.
once ea and every one of you, takes that journey to self-actualize, then embracing your brothers and sisters will naturally ensue.
and respect will be ours...
and cohesion will follow.
for those who pursue higher education, then do it for personal reasons or specific, professional aspirations.
i certainly applaud anyone who seeks to better themself:
whether it is through formal academia or self-taught discovery.
but imho, a standardized bsn is not the answer.
trust me, with only changing this requirement, the major issues will still remain.
perhaps we can learn a thing or two, from our brother nurses.
it does not take a college degree, to exercise respect in the broadest sense of the word.
more specifically, respect, maturity, humility, intelligence and sensitivity, does a good nurse make.
peacefully,
leslie

DITTO!!!!!!

ren406 · Sep 17, 2007

If you need your BSN or not is completely based on where you plan to work after graduation. I have my BSN, and the hospital I am working at is moving towards magnet status (60% of nurses have to be bsn). They are asking new graduate RNs to go back to school to get their BSN and the only reason I got my job (NICU) is because I had my BSN. They are still hiring ADNs, but you might get asked to go back to school. BSNs don't get paid anymore than the ADNs though.